The Coffee House Wall – 13th/19th June

Posted on June 13, 2016

This is the Coffee House Wall for this week. I won’t say that it is your chance to communicate with us, as we are all in this together. It is, nevertheless, the Conservative Blog post that has no particular theme, and where everything is on topic. Let’s just remember that we want to avoid ad hominem attacks on others. We don’t want to engage with trolls. We want to moderate our language ourselves as responsible and mature adults, choosing to use fruity language only where it is necessary. This is our opportunity to show what the Spectator Coffee House Wall could have been like.

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373 thoughts on “The Coffee House Wall – 13th/19th June”

  1. I think it is important in relation to one of the last dying wall comments to quote this riposte

    “The line of questioning put to Owen Jones would never have been put to a black or Jewish person if one of their venues had been attacked in this way.

  2. The line of questioning would never have been put to a Christian if one of their venues had been attacked in this way, mainly because it is unlikely the incident would ever be discussed in a British TV studio.

    78 Christians were murdered and 362 injured less than three months ago. It was reported in the news but there were no studio discussions about it, probably because the victims were Pakistanis rather than Westerners. The term “Christianophobia” has not been coined.

    600 Christians have been murdered by Islamic terrorists so far this year simply for being Christian. A hate crime certainly yet still the term “Christianophobia” has not been coined. We have “Islamophobia” instead.

    Could it be that Christianity is not part of the “progressive” agenda but simply a vehicle exploited as a platform by some of its proponents when it suits them to do so?

  4. I resent the lies about that giant of life Soper

    Dr Donald as those of us fortunate to spend time as disciples called him taught us that Christianity and Capitalism were incompatible

    But he was not just hot air

    He motivated us to tirelessly work for those who society had discarded particularly ex-prisoners, the homeless , unmarried mothers(then outcasts) and juvenile offenders. Do not denigrate his Peerage which allowed him access to resources for this and also our work with the disadvantaged youth of the (now) Tower Hamlets Slums

    When we later founded the Evangelical Crusade for young people which he later called the Order of Christian Witness he capitalised on contacts at Westminster to ensure success

    So do not talk to me about paltry excuses

    You use all resources available to achieve the ends you wish

    In helping the young

    In life

    In politics

  5. FURTHER INDICATIONS OF SURGE IN SUPPORT FOR BREXIT

    “The headlines go from bad to worse for the UK and EU establishment as yet another new poll this weekend, by Opinium, shows “Brexit” leading by a remarkable 19 points (52% chose to leave the EU against 33% choosing to keep the status quo). This result comes after 2 polls Friday night showing a 10-point lead for “leave” which sparked anxiety across markets. This surge in “leave” probability comes despite an additional 1.5 million voters having registered this week (which many expected to increase “remain” support)….”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

  6. In your penultimate posting last week, Colonel, in the extract, it says somewhere that Marxist dogma says that ‘consciousness determines history’. This cannot be right, if the barbarian remembers, and he should for he knew parts of the theory by heart, and this is one of the most debated, attacked, ridiculed part of the Marxist crap, it’s just the other way round, those who worship at the creed’s altar argue the opposite, namely that one’s social conditions, the way one lives, the size of one’s bank account or whatever determine one’s consciousness.

    The quote ‘consciousness determines history’ has the word history in it, but surely if one endorses the view that one’s state of the pocket, it’s either full of money or empty of it, determines one’s consciousness then it follows it is this conscientiously moulded mind that goes to to determine, shape, ordain history, no?

    This is not to endorse Marx, simply to point out the writer may have got it bit wrong.

    (The barbarian won;t answer immediately, if you care to explain, he has to go out again).

  7. Go and help the young in life and in politics then and leave us alone.

    You won’t be missed. It was lovely here without you and your silliness intruding.

  8. Sorry, Baron, I cannot argue for the reviewer’s interpretation of Marx or devise what he intended by it. I know only that on consciousness and history Marx’s meaning is much debated and far from fixed.

    I will provide a polemic though, as leftists are insufficiently condemned in this country. Marx was one in a long line of foreign agitators to come to England to privately enjoy its benefits and freedoms, then to publicly slag off its institutions, history, culture and people. It’s a leftist trait which even the home grown examples cleave to.

  10. Baron @ 11:07

    Wasn’t it something along the lines that the base determines the superstructure, i.e. material and, in particular, economic reality dictate the nature of ideas and consciousness, not the other way about; whereas what seems to be obvious and what Marx may in fact have said is that they mutually interact and influence each other?

  11. Also on Zero Hedge – George Soros you just gotta love him…

    “Soros Buying Gold On BREXIT, EU “Collapse” Risk
    by GoldCore – Jun 13, 2016 5:42 AM

    Soros has now publicly warned that inflation is likely soon and is voicing concerns about BREXIT, the disintegration of the EU, a Chinese financial crash, global contagion and a new World War.”

  13. Colonel Mustard – 11:11

    “Go [… ] etc. and leave us alone.
    You won’t be missed. It was lovely here without you and your silliness intruding.”

    ditto

  14. EC @ 12.05

    Well, the cartoon has Ben Garrison’s name on it in reasonably large letters which should be a satisfactory attribution.

    Yes, he was interviewed by Alex Jones on May 27 at:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP11dz5vpXc

    although I don’t think I was really aware of him until then. His work is a little reminiscent of Nicholas’s, which appeared on the Wall a few years ago.

  16. Malfleur
    “This surge in “leave” probability comes despite an additional 1.5 million voters having registered this week (which many expected to increase “remain” support)….”

    Perhaps Cameron, Osborne, Lynton Crosby et al got just a bit too clever by extending the registration period. Maybe the Govt shot themselves in the foot (or should I say feet) by assuming that the additional 1.5 million voters would be mainly young and pro-Remain. Maybe they were mainly middle-aged or older, and were mainly pro-Leave. This would account for the sudden leap in Leave voters. The image of Cameron and his cohorts at No.10 running round in circles panicking, is giving me great pleasure.

    Come on, Cameron, Crosby, etc. dream up some more idiocies. You’ve already done scaremongering, threatening, bullying, and all to no avail. You’ve tried veiled threats to pensioners, and all it does is increase the Leave vote. Rather like in the U.S. where the more they reviled and insulted Donald Trump, the more votes he got. Insults and threats DON’T work, and the govt would do well to concentrate on the positive aspects of Remain and forget the nastiness of threats and bullying.

  17. I hope you’ve all got your candles lit and sending messages in support of the victims.
    That’s how the west will beat terrorists, candles and hashtags.

  18. Lesley @ 17:50

    If Baron were you he wouldn’t shout that loudly, Lesley, the way things are progressing one wouldn’t be at all shocked if the referendum got delayed. The boy can either find a pretext, pr simply argue that the debate about the merits of either case should go on some more time so that the nation arrives at the ‘right’ decision.

  19. “The image of Cameron and his cohorts at No.10 running round in circles panicking, is giving me great pleasure.”

    The manner of our coward of a Prime Minister behaving in such a duplicious, partial and unpatriotic manner as Cameron has on the question of Britain’s future is beyond belief.
    Appointing Brown as his proxy, hobnobbing with the harpy Harmon, the creature is openly parading a one party state
    Proof, if any more were needed,whether BREXIT or not, that the corpse of Parliamentary sovereignty is exhaling its final breath.

  21. “Richmond Golf Club in Surrey, England didn’t let a few Nazi bombs ruin the fun for players during the Battle of Britain in 1940.

    Instead of suspending play, the club drew up a list of seven rules the keep players in check during and after enemy attacks.

    Lists of Note dug it up, and Big Lead Sports brought it to our attention this morning.

    Here’s the list:

    Players are asked to collect Bomb and Shrapnel splinters to save these causing damage to the mowing machines.
    In competitions, during gunfire, or while bombs are falling, players may take cover without penalty for ceasing play.
    The positions of known delayed-action bombs are marked by red flags placed at reasonably, but not guaranteed safe distance therefrom.
    Shrapnel/and/or bomb splinters on the Fairways, or in Bunkers within a club’s length of a ball may be moved without penalty, and no penalty shall be incurred if a ball is thereby caused to move accidentally.
    A ball moved by enemy action may be replaced, or if lost or destroyed, a ball may be dropped not nearer the hole without penalty.
    A ball lying in a crater may be lifted and dropped not nearer the hole, preserving the line to the hole without penalty.
    A player whose stroke is affected by the simultaneous explosion of a bomb may play another ball from the same place. Penalty, one stroke.”

    Interesting to note that the golf course in the photo is in fact Blackpool North Shore and not Richmond.
    http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/02/wartime-golf-rules.html

  23. EC @ 20:43

    He also received intensive and specialised training for the use of weapons for his company’s duties, EC, had a special company licence in addition to his civilian license, that’s according to the BBC Radio4.

    It wouldn’t surprise if we were to learn that it was a similar PC malady that infected our agencies in the case of the abused girls that stopped the federal spooks to keep a closer watch on him. The FBI have questioned him, must have also looked at the broader picture of the family. His farther, politically active, runs an internet TV station, and put himself forward for the Autumn Presidential election in Afghanistan, also visited the State Department, nobody as yet has said what for (there’s a picture of him in front of a door in their building). This may have been enough for the FBI investigation to end, who wants to endanger one’s career, livelihood, pension?

    The TV moderator’s right, it would be prudent for the worshippers of Allah to be excluded from sensitive jobs. We should be looking for a similar policy to be put forward here.

  27. Britain. Rule Britannia. Britons never never never shall be slaves.

    http://blog.royalmint.com/britannia-returns-circualting-coins/

    The image of Britannia has represented this country since Roman times. She is a strong, confident woman, comfortable in her skin. A fitting symbol for modern Britain and the Womens Institute. Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory are rousing traditional songs which bring together Britons who are confident and comfortable in their skins. Millions of them.

    Its rousing words speak to our times as the home grown tyrants seek to bend us down.

    Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
    Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

    When Britain first, at heaven’s command,
    Arose from out the azure main,
    This was the charter of the land,
    And Guardian Angels sang this strain:

    (Chorus)

    The nations not so blest as thee
    Must, in their turn, to tyrants fall,
    While thou shalt flourish great and free:
    The dread and envy of them all.

    (Chorus)

    Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
    More dreadful from each foreign stroke,
    As the loud blast that tears the skies
    Serves but to root thy native oak.

    (Chorus)

    Thee haughty tyrants ne’er shall tame;
    All their attempts to bend thee down
    Will but arouse thy generous flame,
    But work their woe and thy renown.

    (Chorus)

    To thee belongs the rural reign;
    Thy cities shall with commerce shine;
    All thine shall be the subject main,
    And every shore it circles, thine.

    (Chorus)

    The Muses, still with freedom found,
    Shall to thy happy coasts repair.
    Blest isle! with matchless beauty crowned,
    And manly hearts to guard the fair.

    Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
    Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

  28. Reporter Chases Gen. David Petraeus Through The Streets of Germany: Bilderberg 2016
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNmxbtWWOG0

    The American military are at a disadvantage when compared with their British counterparts in that they have taken an oath to defend the US Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Those who attend secret international political organisations, committed in part apparently to the destruction of the USA, tend therefore to be a little shy of fellow citizens threatening to catch them with their honour in disrepair.

    The oath of allegiance to the Queen on the other hand, which must be sworn by a British Army officer would appear, under certain circumstances, to give domestic enemies of the British Constitution a free run.

    I hope none of our countrymen are relying on that as 23rd June approaches and enemies of our constitution, both domestic and foreign, regroup and move forward.

  29. Colonel Mustard – 08:11

    I hope we can make an exception for our noble friend Baron Pippin II, the highly educated, well read and well travelled slav.

    When it comes down to “the Shootout at the OK Corrall”, as it might, I have no doubt that I’ll find Baron at my side along with Frank P, Verity(with double barrelled sawn off), Noa, your good self, and the Earps.

  30. Tetley and Sturgeon failing epically to understand the clash of ideologies between Marxism v islam.
    As far as the latter are concerned there is no such thing as ‘hate crime’, a concept as totalitarian, and as similar in its nature, as ‘submission to the will of allah”.
    As to Marx, as a Victorian bourgeoise, Lenin, Stalin and the Communist party, he shared Engels’ contempt for pederasts.
    The significance of Orlando is that it demonstrates islam’s rejection of the so-called western values espoused by the internationalist left, who thought they were allies in the struggle against capitalism. The useful idiots have served their purpose and, when islam comes to a corner near you, it will, as the song goes, ‘be raining men.’

  31. Rule Britannia. I would imagine after reading that, a true leftie would have a fit of the vapours.
    RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: It’s Gordon Munster – and he’s got a bolt loose
    http://dailym.ai/1rmL2Wk

  32. EC 20.43

    G4S. Ah yes.
    What better career choice for a good muslim? Combining business with pleasure it has airport and jail security contracts the world over and therefore
    ‘A hand in every crotch’.

  33. Noa – 09:17

    “raining men”

    Yes, even Owen Jones might finally get himself tossed off by an exotic stranger, but it’ll be from the highest building in town!

  36. Noa @ 10:18

    If only could the suggestion in the last two sentences get fulfilled, if only, Noa. One wouldn’t wish the Swedes any more head aching than they already suffer from looking after the boisterous young of the ROP, but what a relief for us.

  37. EC June 14th, 2016 – 09:15

    I have no problem with whoever wishes to join me in celebrating Britannia. I have an issue with people who choose to live here and then try to incite hatred against Britannia, her history, her traditions, her culture, her bonding songs and her peoples by declaring the celebration of all that “not okay” (q.v. Dr Jag Prinknett). This of course includes some people of entirely home grown persuasion, mainly cultural Marxists or members of the leftist collective.

    The race hustlers try to make it an issue of division, or link it selectively to unfavourable episodes of our history which they self-identify with. They view it through their own prejudice and bigotry and want us to view it through feelings of their supposed victimhood and our guilt. Unfortunately those who rule over us have pandered to those negative sentiments, exacerbating the divisions within our society and making matters worse.

    I view it as a bringing together and a bonding, to fortify a shared and confident path into the future with a symbolic and ancient figure representing our island, our maritime heritage, our stubborn defiance in the face of tyrants (whoever and whatever they are), with the shield bearing our flag protecting the freedoms of all who come here, and the fact that we can celebrate being led as a nation by a woman, whether it is Britannia, Margaret Thatcher or Her Majesty The Queen, God Bless Her.

    Baron is welcome to link arms with me and join me in song, or even to stand back and smile indulgently and with no ill will at the eccentricity of Britons. I would only have a problem if he tried to tell me it was wrong to sing Rule Britannia or Land of Hope and Glory, wrong to wave the flag of my country and wrong for the Womens Institute to represent the magnificent figure of Britannia in their celebration of Her Majesty’s birthday.

    https://anonmgur.com/up/b7766f728fa8ad2ec172a4d9f7620f39.png

  38. I should add that for me the figure of Britannia and all it represents is the very antithesis of the EU.

    I’d like to see her re-elevated in the symbolism of our nation, especially at this critical time when the political class are attempting to break her trident, pull away her shield and cast her down under the feet of foreign tyrants.

  39. Colonel Mustard – 10:40

    Re: Slaves/slavs
    I wasn’t “avin’ ago”, or dissing you, as they might say in Croydon where the patois of the indigenous local poorly educated oiks is nearly impenetrable to outsiders.

  40. Donald Tusk, the Pole in temporary charge of the Brussels monstrosity on behalf of Mutti has pronounced on Brexit. He thinks Britain leaving will not only ‘be the end of the EU, it will destroy European political civilisation’.

    Leaving aside the lucus a non lucendo of his newly coined ‘political civilisation’, the question remains. Why hasn’t he listened to the boy, agreed to changes of substance that may have persuaded the great British unwashed to remain? Was it his own obsessive belief in the undemocratic construct, or was his boss, the Mutti, insisting he tell the boy go jump the tree?

    One may see some logic behind the Grand European Project, the tribes of the Old Continent have been known to war with each other, the idea of ending the centuries of conflict seems honourable enough.

    On the other hand, it should have occurred to the noble minds that there must have been something pretty deep, of near primeval origin, strongly engrained in the psyche of the individual tribes for any one of them to go smash one’s neighbour to pieces, or get smashed itself. To negate this element of the warring history of Europe, one needs more than just a few to have a dream, a couple of generations of the Europeans, and an undemocratic, corrupt and ever mushrooming construct of Brussels.

    One needs time above all, and a gentler, more gradual approach, fewer bureaucrats poking their noses into things that ordinary people are more than capable to handle themselves. One needs to create conditions in which the masses will feel a need for the closer, more tribe-less, more integrated space.

    It’s now almost certain we will exit the club if we’re allowed to vote. You may find the barbarian unduly frightened, but something tells him the vote will either get postponed, or it will be rigged.

  41. EC @ 09:15

    What a concern for the poorly educated member of the Slavonic aristocracy, EC, what can Baron make of it, say, do? A kiss on the cheek to keep in line with the rainbow culture of today? A drink on him if we ever our paths cross? Or will his tipping the bowler do?

    Still, Baron scanned Colonel’s posting at 9.15 first, thought ‘what the heck’s going on? Are we to get a singing troupe together?

    It would be pleasure, Colonel, to lock arms with you provided you don’t insist Baron joins the singing. It would be the disaster of the century, his ability to produce euphonic sound is non-existent, missing, absent.

    (When Baron returns he may tell you about his tutorial ‘how to keep to speed limits’. You may learn a thing or two, well, a thing will do).

  42. Baron June 14th, 2016 – 11:30

    The Baron is going to teach the poor Colonel a thing or two? Gosh. How privileged I feel! Teach on Macduff! And damn’d be him that first cries, ‘Hold, enough!’

  43. 11.30
    12.08
    First the irony
    Then the vitriol
    Then the demands to CHWexit
    Be careful Sir Baron

  44. Noa
    You denigrate the left on gays but it is the right, particularly the Tea Party mob that wish them harm
    *
    At Dean Bible Ministries Men’s Prayer Breakfast, Rafael Cruz (father of American Republican Senator Ted Cruz, backed by the Tea Party Patriots) has said that same-sex marriage, evolution and LGBT rights are all part of a communist/socialist plot to destroy God, America, and the nuclear family

  45. Baron – 11:30

    Certainly not, cheeky!! All that men cheek slobbering is for sewer breathed Frenchies, other continentals, and in the case of the mafia/politburo it’s usually accompanied by a deadly embrace! As for the pint, then that’s two you owe me! You failed to get your round in at the Counting House, if I remember correctly.

    All that matters, Baron, is that when the SHTF that you’re pointing your antique Steyr/Gewehr/Mosin/CZ/FN in the right direction, and that you can still shoot straight! If by then the drink or the meds have got the better of you then you’ll have to have a sawn-off as well… Alternatively we don earplugs and could give you a megaphone to sing at the enemy with 🙂

  47. What no you say to that tele.
    Things are not going your way at the moment, and it’s going to get much worse.

  49. telemachus June 14th, 2016 – 14:00

    Stop playing your little games of attempted divide and rule and go away.

    Baron’s comments are a hundred thousand times more welcome than yours, even when in disagreement.

    He is a good egg – unlike you.

  50. On going ; shooting and hostage situation at Walmart,Amarillo,Texas.
    ( see * amarillo texas news*

  52. Re mine at 18-30. I did that by clicking *back* to my posting of 18-19 which came up in the `Leave a comment`box which could then be edited.

  53. Throughout the day, in each news bulletins, and on the World at One, the BBC said persistently that the killer of the French policeman and his wife have shouted ‘God is great’.

    He couldn’t shout ‘God is great’ because he’s French, why would someone living in France, having a French nationality, speaking French shouted words of English. He shouted Allahu akbar (source: al Arabia news), but the ‘objective’ BBC wankers have to twist the story, insert in the Christian God.

    Martha Kearney who fronted the BBC Radio4 World at One bulletin had two guest experts in, the treatment of both couldn’t have been more different, and you can guess who got interrupted more often, challenged, prevented to explain his case. Joseph Goebbels would have been proud of her.

  55. EC @ 15:18

    OK, EC, two pints it is.

    On the subject of straight shooting: The barbarian seems to be losing it, or his 4-10 lets him down deliberately. The last tree rat needed two shots rather than one. Age may have something to do with it, Baron reckons.

  56. telemachus @ 14:05

    The barbarian for one doesn’t wish them any harm, tele, only wishes they would keep their sexual preferences private. When was the last time a noisy parade celebrated naked heterosexuality then?

  57. What has happened to Frank?

    Frank, you still with us? The country needs you. Your voice has been missing as the battle hots up. Shouldn’t you rejoin the squad?

    In the Suffolk area that houses Baron’s abode there are five massive boards saying ‘Vote Leave’, no other message in sight. Baron has designed his own message ‘Say No to Brussels Sprouts, Please’. It ain’t as professionally done as the other five, but one cannot miss it.

  61. Radford NG @ 20:05

    Spot on, Radford, the cartoon.

    The ITV gave the referendum long coverage at the News at Ten, the cumryd spoke at a union gathering, warned of the NHS imploding if we leave, but a bunch of Labour supporters interview by the TV crew to a man (and a woman) said roughly ‘the NHS is suffering not because of lack of funds, but because of surplus of immigrants’.

    And another piece of news from the bulletin: The politicians are apparently saying (how do they know?) the postal votes are massively in favour of brexit. The barbarian still believes that if the referendum goes ahead, the leave votes will beat the remain ones by a large margin.

  62. Just one point on the Orlando shooting:

    If the guards (or even some of the revellers) were armed, would the dead total be as high as it’s likely to be when some of the injured don’t make it?

  64. telemachus was beginning to waver on the referendum after some bad behaviour experienced by his family at the hands of a bunch of Bulgarians
    *
    And then he saw the ridiculous Leave Political Broadcast last night telling us that the NHS would collapse if we stayed in
    *
    Lies
    Lies
    Lies
    *
    That can only be the evil Gove
    How could any man with conscience put out such garbage

  66. The NHS will collapse whether we stay in or get out because one cannot successfully run an outfit that has unlimited demand for its output, but restricted supply of funds. Miracles happen not whatever the cumryd or anyone else may say.

    Not unlike the EU’s the NHS’s foundation also stinks, both must fundamentally change if they want to survive. It seems the Brussels bureaucracy is incapable of reconstruction, hence must fall apart. Our leaving it now would only speed this process up, allow us to have some serious debate about the NHS, put it on a firmer footing, secure its future.

  69. 07:00 Not much in the way of evidence there. A superficial article, full of prejudiced presumptions about the motivation of those suspicious of Obama. Running the standard leftist line that anyone suspicious of or hostile to the President must be a racist. An inversion of the racist sentiments of voting for skin colour that got him elected in the first place.

    The nation of race relations “experts” could do with more diversity too. Many/most of them seem to be race hustlers from only one side of the contrived divide engaged in a tirade of subjective grievance that is actually subliminally racist in contrast to the imaginary racism they often conjure up.

    Too often the chip on one person’s shoulder is being projected as put there by another. Unsurprisingly the chips on shoulders projection routine is at the very heart of leftist ideology. A grievance rooted, negative, subjective dissonance that is drawn to protest, rabble rousing and insurgency, it casts around for “victims” to exploit and “villains” to demonise. In a lifetime I have seen little merit in it and even less in its often grisly consequences but telemachus is its perfect cheerleader, fulfilling all those aspects here in every one of his unwanted and unwelcome “comments”.

    Blair was correct in describing it as a movement rather than a (political) party. But it is a movement in the synapses of faulty brains hard wired for self delusion and the incomprehension of truth, bonding together in a Borg-style collective of intolerance, hatred but continuous lies and virtue-signalling. No reality mirror for it either. Part of the delusion is that it thinks it is perfect and always right about everything. A dangerous quasi-religious cult of self masquerading as benign and don’t you dare dissent from its dogma!

  71. Tetley
    As ever the loony left, totalitarian in nature and all controlling, seeks to conflate thoughts with deeds. A mad preacher, however unpleasant, is not an Islamic mass murderer.
    Until the usurpation of British justice by socialists a physical act was generally necessary to constitute a crime. Except in the lexicon of the left there is no crime in thought.

  72. Absolutely nothing against Barry, Baron has ever had, because of his skin colour, if he were of greenish colour or any shade of pink and such then the barbarian might have rolled his eyes, these colours are not natural, but black’s fine, has always been fine. In fact, as the barbarian may have told you when very young he very much wanted his skin colour to be black (another story this).

    What cuts it here is not so much his education, his parents and all that crap that people usually go for labelling him a Muslim (the barbarian’s guilty, too), what cuts it is his actions as President. It’s the deeds, not the words, or anything else.

    When it comes to the crusades, although these were happening centuries ago, he has no difficulty kicking Christianity, the Full Monty of it. It ain’t acts of mass vandalism in his book, terror acts of followers of Jesus who pretended to be Christians, terror caused by any other motive but a religious one, and the religion is Christianity.

    Yet if it concerns today’s ISIS, organised terror by one or many in the name of Allah, acts in which those committing them shout Allah Akbar, leave notes, video pledging alliances to any of the Islamic based terror groups, ask hostages to quote from the Koran to decide whom to kill, he just cannot find it in himself to see the connection.

    The guy’s a Muslim, he just hasn’t come out yet.

  73. Baron

    “The guy’s a Muslim, he just hasn’t come out yet.”

    Remember Tony Blair’s sudden defection from the CofE to the RCs once he quit being PM? His rather unseemly dash to see the Pope to receive absolution?

    I wonder how many “Hail Mary”s he got for Iraq, Dr. David Kelly etc. Do the RCs run introductory offers for mass murderers?

    btw I’m travelling, once the wheels turn in 5 mins.

  74. EC
    “Do the RCs run introductory offers for mass murderers?”

    Erm no. They used to organise crusades against them though… It’s generally Protestantism and its spawn; Wesleyism and its socialist cousins, now absorbed into the Labour party, which has taken the path of appeasement to islam.

  75. One of the great historical fallacies in the current controversy around Islam is that the Crusades were an aggressive war of conquest against Islamic states. In fact the majority of the states involved were invariably majority Christian before being conquered by Muslim forces from the East. It was the persecution of Christians in the conquered lands that motivated the Crusades as an essentially defensive intervention. Most of the religious military orders were conceived for the protection of Christians and Christian pilgrims.

    It is perhaps understandable that radical Muslims should take that line and try to apply it, out of context, for propaganda purposes to the modern situation (telemachus himself once infamously referred to Bush as “crusader” – in the same post where he entreated us to give the ISIS “Caliph” a fair hearing – a remarkable admission of the far left’s accommodation of radical fundamentalist Islam), but Western politicians follow it too. This seems to be part of their self-defeating guilt and appeasement routine.

    All this of course allows nothing for the usual concept of warfare in the medieval era, the brutalities and conventions of which owed little to any religious differences.

  79. Noa – 10:41

    Arrgh….
    It was Baron wot “triggered” me! Blair’s an evil scumbag! Surprised that you didn’t resign from the club after he was given his membership. Can one “vote leave”, btw?

  80. Radford NG – 18:46

    Having seen the way the wind is blowing is this a cynical rearguard action by Brillo to save his subscriber base?

    I wonder if the “Spexit” issue will contain Fraser Nelson’s long awaited article on Neathergate?

  81. EC June 15th, 2016 – 21:46

    He already has but the title of the article “Immigration: a (belated) response to Andrew Neather” was not reflected by the URL:-

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/we-cant-reduce-mass-immigration-but-we-can-shrink-the-state/

    Our resident troll graced the comments with the memorable:- “I can think of little more dreadful than my country full of little englanders trying to retrench into a supposed idyll of village greens and swans on the river * We are a dynamic force in the world because of our multiethnic multi faith society * Thank God that society as a whole agrees”

    Who knew that the idyll of village greens and swans on the river was so counter revolutionary?

  82. Will Brexit see the end of leading politicians prefacing remarks that they want to emphasize with the verbal tic “Let me make it clear”, “Let me be absolutely clear”, “I want to be completely clear”. etc.?

    Let me clear: I hope so.

  84. TRES ANGLAIS

    “One day, years from now, when I’m sitting in my armchair beside the fire, my son will come up to me and ask, “Daddy… what did you do in the EU referendum?”

    And I’ll put down my newspaper, remove the pipe from my mouth, and I’ll say, “Well, son. I went on a boozed-up boat trip down the Thames with Nigel Farage while men from Ukip shouted ‘Get a job!’ at Bob Geldof as he flicked V-signs at them from a pleasure cruiser and a load of Scottish fishermen squirted water at rival campaigners in a dinghy and Members of Parliament gazed in disbelief from the Commons terrace and 100 people on a bridge sang Rule Britannia.”…”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/nigel-farage-bob-geldof-a-chase-down-the-thames-and-the-most-sur/

  86. EC @ 21:46

    An excellent observation on the Spectator’s U-turn, EC, the same thought hit the barbarian when he read Radford’s posting. Better late than never, right?

  87. Colonel Mustard @ 22:16

    Tele gets it wrong again, Colonel, it ain’t swans anymore but ducks, at least on Baron’s little blob of water.

  88. Malfleur @ 23:08

    You won’t have enough years to live to see the day when the ‘let me make it clear’, followed by a long winded obfuscation of the argument disappears from the political dictionary, Malfleur. These political animals cannot help it, concealing, avoiding the truth, lying are valuable tools of their profession.

  89. Malfleur @ 23:15

    The super rich Irish wanker seems to be the sure loser, Malfleur, many Labour supporters who joined in the counter-protest to the fishermen convoy left his boat, tweeted they wanted nothing to do with him. Nigel was smart enough to turn the affair very much in his favour, click on Breibart London, the story’s there.

  90. Colonel Mustard @ 11:01

    That’s an excellent point, Colonel, it was indeed in the defence of Christianity against the Islamic expansion, slaughtering of Christians, preventing pilgrimage by Christian believers that the crusades were put together. Michael Haag paints the picture convincingly.

    Baron’s initial point was, however, about Barry’s unwillingness to use the same yardstick in both cases, he blames the Christian religion for the death and destruction caused by the crusades, ignores the devastation when the perpetrators are those who pledge allegiance to Allah. Where’s the consistency in that?

  91. It would be interesting to see the multi millionaire secular Saint Sir Bob grilled on Question Time tomorrow night about the Live Aid funded deportations and 50,000 plus deaths that resulted from the use of the money donated, to fund Menquistu’s Stalin style deportations.
    Truly this foul, wretched man has created a trail of death and despair throughout both his personal and public life.
    Don’t count on Dimbleby or anyone on the panel to make it though.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/24/g8.debtrelief

  92. Colonel Mustard 11.01

    Thank you for elucidating upon the point which was implicit in my post; that the crusades were a essentially a defensive reaction by Christendom to the aggressive onslaught upon fellow Christians in the middle east by invading muslims.

  93. EC 21:12
    “Noa – 10:41
    Arrgh….
    It was Baron wot “triggered” me! Blair’s an evil scumbag! Surprised that you didn’t resign from the club after he was given his membership. Can one “vote leave”, btw”

    I had ‘checked out’ before Blair arrived, but as you know, you can never leave, especially in the UK.
    The level of antipathy towards Catholics in the UK is remarkable, as the Spectator’s reader comments demonstrate.
    And I have always suspected that part of the reason he inflicted his particular brand of paganism on the Catholic church was, as Catholics are unable to hold the office of PM, to further de-stabilise the constitution of the UK.
    In England, the legacy of the past remains virtually extant, despite the real and present danger from an old enemy suddenly within our walls.
    One recalls the old Belfast joke about the man stopped at a roadblock and asked his religion. When he replies that he is an atheist he is asked, “Protestant or Catholic atheist?”

  94. “New York Times still trying to find motive for Orlando massacre”

    Headline in today’s Washington Times.

    Perhaps little t, our apologist for and perhaps political ally of Saudi Arabian Sunni Wahabists, might offer the NYT a tutorial.

  99. “Islam is not just a religion – it is also a political system A political system can be defeated.” (Dr. Bill Warner – see above) He gives the example of muslims praying (religion) en masse in the street (political).

  100. Future of naval warfare switched from dependence on coal to dependence on oil and the attitude to islam among the establishment changed accordingly. (Dr. Warner again – paraphrased- why the elite are opposed to the grassroots on islam).

  102. If you continue to watch that link that I just posted above, you will see a stunning phrase by phrase analysis of an extract from a recent speech by Obama on Orlando. My reaction to that analysis is that the United States military must act expeditiously to uphold its oath and remove this man and his administration from power at whatever the risk, price and difficulty, before it is too late.

  103. Pretty good article on Mayor Khan’s peculiarly irrational bikini ban:-

    http://heatst.com/life/note-to-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-please-stop-helping-women-with-your-subway-ad-ban/

    It draws attention to something I saw on DP yesterday where in defence of Remain Rachel Reeves also started talking about her own children.

    Listen up politicians. You are not there to advocate for your private family aspirations or values. You are there to represent your constituents – all your constituents. The moment you start talking about your own family aspirations as a basis for policy it calls into question your fitness for the role of representative. The media are very bad at challenging this so consequently politicians are doing it more and more to reinforce their arguments over policy whereas it actually undermines their credibility. Is Rachel Reeves in Parliament to represent the best interests of all her constituents or just to look out for her own children?

    The rise of political dynasties just adds to the credibility issue and it seems to be a predominantly left wing phenomenon.

  105. Colonel Mustard @ 12:21

    Agreed, Colonel, the message of the mentioned book – ‘please, stop helping, you’re hurting us’ – resonates with the barbarian, it has been his argument all along, every piece of evidence points to positive discrimination making things worse for those it’s supposed to help.

    It raises expectations on part of the ‘helped’, more often than not unfulfilled, it also boosts inevitably the level of animosity towards the ‘helped’ on part of those who must lose, and those in power of the ethnic group the losers come from.

    On the bikini ad, Baron’ neutral, he cannot give a toss if someone wants to spend money on a picture of a young, gorgeous girl. Khan should do the same, focus on his co-religionists, persuade them to calm down, stop plotting, find a job, behave as the indigenous folk do.

  106. Malfleur @ 11:34

    In many a source, the farther is reported to have visited the State Department, Malfleur, not Obama. Could one believe Alex’s story?

    The mullah who says roughly ‘we must kill homosexuals out of compassion’ is the key to solving the boil of Islamic atrocities. It’s people like him who install the hatred in the hearts of the young Muslims.

  107. Prepare for the first England’s win at the Euro 2016, after 16.00 hours it would be four points for the Lions of Albion, the barbarian predicts.

  108. Where is Frank? One can only very much hope he’s busy, and not confined to bed.

  109. Why this aversion to stating the bleeding obvious? Lots of pictures and commentary on St. Bob in a boat having either overdosed on booze or G K Chesterton, possibly both. Firstly he is not a Sir, his knighthood is honorary therefore he is not entitled to be called Sir. Secondly he is not English. The man is so typical of they who blow into this country from God knows where and proceed to treat it as a colony. To this fatuous vulgarian and all of his ilk, all I will say, in terms they will assuredly comprehend, is shut the fuck up and bugger off. Brexit

  110. In one of the last DTs, there’s a piece saying obesity may be contagious, spores, amongst them of the bacteria causing obesity, a third of us produce can potentially move between people through air. You should be aware of who your spouse, relatives, friends are.

    The barbarian reckons it’s nonsense. Look at black females in the US fifty years ago, and today. Is it that there were no obese spores in the air, then today there’s noting but them?

  113. I see telemachus “associates” is shape shifting again now he’s back from holiday – “Former_Ukipper” this time.

    Google alert that Stalin Boy.

  118. Mrs Jo Cox Labour MP for Batley murdered in the street in Birstall.

    A 57 year old man has been detained. No description of him has been given.

    Her husband has stated hate knows no creed,race or religion.

    This can only add to the suspicions.

  119. The killer appears to be Tommy Mair, who seems to be a far right but also to have some mental health issues. Said to have shouted “Britain First” as he shot Jo Cox with what is described as a home made gun. My son said it had false flag written all over it and he is not usually of the same views as me.

  120. Peter from Maidstone @ 18:18

    Nice to hear your voice again, Peter.

    If the guy’s sane, not a piece of loopiness released into out community for the lack of NHS funds, he should hang. Everyone who murders a child, a policeman, or an MP should expect that fate. No excuse for it, Baron thinks.

  121. Jo Cox.

    The story appears to be `Good Samaritan killed intervening in street altercation`.

    Named witness denies hearing man shout `Britain First`.

  123. Might not be a popular opinion but I would expect a local mp to concentrate on issues important to local people. I totally condem what has happened but it shows the conflict of interest in these people.
    Her obvious interest in international humanitarian issues would suggest to me she wasn’t the right person for a local mp.

  124. Apologies for my forced sabbatical folks – detained by the heirs of Hippocrates; won’t bore you with the gory details, suffice it to say that I was admitted as a Europhobe and discharged as a Eunuch having undergone what they whimsically describe as a TURP. One more medical adventure to add to an already exotic dossier. As a seasoned octogenarian the loss of the fun function is less important than the relief of the five-year or so period of pain associated therewith. I’m hoping that my recent tetchiness may also be alleviated. Still somewhat fragile but Mrs Frank P has promised to wheelbarrow me up to the voting booth on 23rd June, regardless of my temporary infirmity in order to do my duty and BRexit!.

    Now I must catch up and find out WTF my Baronial pal has been up to in my absence. 🙂

    Incidentally, if any of you elderly Wallsters have been avoiding similar surgery – I can reassure you that it’s not as gruesome as you might imagine. Science has advanced and pee-hole surgery is not as gruesome as one might imagine. Anyway I was asleep at the time – great anaethetist – no nauseous after effects. Hoping to be moble again in a day or two.

  125. Baron

    Thanks for your concern, me ol’china. Foregoing post answers your query.
    Much appreciated.

  126. Note that the egregious Angela Eagle immediately tried to politicise the Jo Cox murder with a campaign verbal – and Cameron likewise with a ‘suspension of the referendum campaign’. Cynical twats.

    Here’s my headline “Local mental patient slays voluntary co-worker”. Let’s cut the bullshit and BRexit. The sad death of this poor woman should not be exploited for political purposes. There is a war on. Sympathies to her husband and family. RIP. As for Care in the Community ???

  127. How many more deaths are to be tolerated before this ludicrous policy is rescinded?

  129. Jo Cox.

    EU politicians are seeking to politicise this.
    These are the EU Commissioner for Migration ( a Greek ) and Alain Juppe ( would be President of France ) .

    http://bit.ly/1UBhQT7

  130. To misquote General Philip Sheridan, “the only good socialist ……………”

  131. Barack Hussein Obama has just delivered one of the most egregious speeches in Orlando that I have ever heard from any politician. At the site of a massacre perpetrated by a soldier of Mohammed. Not once did he mention Islam in half an hour of utter deluded bilge. The man is a waste of space. Roll on next January. This man and his ilk must be stripped of office. They are either dangerously deluded or deliberately subversive to their country and their allies. I suspect both. Our own Obama puppets are equally suspect.

    As for suspending the BRexit campaign – fuck off CallmeDave . You suspend what you want. This campaigner is not for suspending, unless there are lampposts and treasonous politicians involved. More hypocritical slush which is limpid in its transparency.

  133. Frank P @ 21:02

    And what makes you think you’re the only member of the TURP club, Frank? The poorly educated Slav has had a club card for over two years now. Welcome back, guru.

  134. It was painful, at times very painful to watch, but we’ve prevailed, beat the leak chewing squad, in the slightest nick of time. Now for the Slovaks next Monday, and into the knock-out stage we move.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we could win the next game by a margin of two goals minimum? A good omen for the 23rd, no?

  135. Baron (23:47)

    🙂 Didn’t think for a moment I was. Just trying to encourage others who like me, shrank from the procedure for far too long. At our age that amounts to about 30% of the male population, I understand. Gravity always wins in the end, so to speak. 😉

  136. Frank P @ 21:18

    For some reason, nothing has yet been said about the other person who got injured, not seriously, is hospitalised. He may have something substantial to say about the incident.

  137. Baron (23:57)

    Is it true that the first three from each group move on to the knock-out stage? When did they change the rules?

  138. Frank P @ 21:32

    Poor analogy, Frank, not worth commenting on except for saying the last thing Putin needs is not so much seeing the Russian team kicked out of the tournament because of a bunch of thugs (the squad’s bad enough not to progress beyond the group stage anyway), but the possibility of losing the 2018 FIFA fixture. Hence to argue that the thuggery was organised by the State is beyond parody, it would be the best pretext for the country to have it taken away.

  139. Frank P @ 00:04

    The barbarian isn’t that much of an expert, Frank, but the change isn’t what you say. You have six groups, two top teams from each of the groups move into the knock-out stage automatically (no change here). In addition, four of the best third ranked teams also joined them (that’s the change). Hence, the knock-out stage starts with 16 teams.

  140. Radford NG @ 21:59

    A drowning man, at a straw, clutch? And drowning they all will be come the 23rd, my blogging friend. But the tweets are distasteful, nobody has yet said what has caused this tragedy.

    By all accounts, she was a caring individual, genuinely concerned about her constituents, hard working, and charming to the boot. Andrew Mitchell who worked with her had nothing but praise for her. It’s truly tragic, one cannot but think of her husband, the kids in particular. Awful, truly awful, whatever one may think of her political compass. RIP.

  141. Baron (00:25)

    Thanks. That explains it.

    As for Alex’s take on football hooliganism – how did I guess that your analysis would differ – vehemently? Why don’t you append comments to his blog posts? He has a comments facility now. It would be interesting to read a debate between you two Slavic combatants. 🙂

  142. Frank P @ 00:51

    What you reckon, Frank, would have been gained if someone had had an argument with Adolf? Would he have succeeded in convincing him to love the Jews?

    (Btw, is the English OK?)

  145. Questions

    1. What psychiatric monitoring was Mair subject to?
    2. Had he stopped taking his medication?
    3. Do the authorities monitor folks who subscribe to bodies like the National Alliance in the same way they target Islamic and Leftist groups?
    4. Should we return to incarceration of these folks?

  146. I can’t help thinking that if jo lived among the mess her sort have created in northern towns instead of well away from it all in a nice houseboat on the Thames she may have understood that not everyone wants lots more of them to add to the problem.
    Where do you live tele. Whichever one you are today.

  147. Not worthy John
    *
    Jo was brought up and schooled where she died. She does have a house there and used the barge to keep her children near her work. I was born in nearby Huddersfield and my extended family all live within a few miles of where she died. My cousin who lives in Batley rated her
    As to my domicile, I migrated across the Pennines to Manchester as a boy and live and work to relieve the deprivation that surrounds me
    Which is why I grieve when I hear Home Counties/East Anglian smugness

  148. telemachus June 17th, 2016 – 06:57

    I grieve when I read your divisive smugness. You are one of those left wing hypocrites who bleats about hatred between races but who is quite happy to stoke and incite hatred against different regions of the UK.

    So don’t come the holier than thou, Stalin Boy, when your own prejudice and bigotry is writ large in “Home Counties/East Anglian smugness”.

    And while we are on the subject of your prejudiced and bigotry you never did answer the question as to why you entreated us all to give the ISIS “Caliph” a “fair hearing”. Why was that?

  149. Baron June 17th, 2016 – 01:14

    The threads there have been so colonised to ridicule by the You_Kid/SalmondFishing/UnionJihack troll of 1,001 uptick sock puppets that’s it not worth commenting.

    But I did note this interesting comment from ‘Hzle’ about our own resident troll:-

    “telemachus is just a troll who picks the top rated comments and says something stupid under them to derail the thread with a long argument – so we have to scroll through that to get to anything else. Kind of a nihilist

    “Just one reply is needed to his, explaining that his/her behaviour has been so bizarre and inflammatory that people should ignore him/her/it”

  150. Colonel Mustard @ 08:31

    What’s hard to comprehend is how this man who seems to have devoted his life to gardening, has been interested in nothing but gardening, extolling not just the utility value of it, but it’s therapeutic qualities, too, totally disinterested in politics should shout the name of a political outfit of which not many (that includes the barbarian) ever heard of. The police should look closely into his circle of friends, people he talked to often.

  151. And a question: Are there any eye witnesses to the tragedy? Does anyone know?

    If one scans Breibart, a couple of locals talks about hearing shouts, noises, but has anyone come across an individual who saw what happened with his or her own eyes?

  152. Baron – 09:32

    We are nation living under CCTV. It would be strange if no footage were available.

  153. Baron June 17th, 2016 – 09:05

    BBC News reported this morning that he shouted “Britain First!” or “Put Britain first!” without caveat. No mention of his psychiatric issues at all. The crux will be whether it is established that he had any links to or membership of far right groups. But there remains the question of whether he set out to murder Jo Cox or murdered her when she intervened in an altercation, which is not clear.

    Last night BBC News wheeled out a succession of Labour party figures to “pay tribute”, all of whom were highly emotive, one at the point of tears. All of them denounced expressions of ‘hatred’ without reference to the murderer’s state of mind or motive. The candles, vigils and expressions of public grieving have begun and no doubt a minute’s silence will soon be demanded. BBC continuously describe it as a ‘tragedy’. It was a murder, a heinous crime, a tragedy for her family. The victim was a Labour MP, a woman and a mother so the incident will undoubtedly become a catalyst for legislative demands and be woven into political agendas.

    As far as I can ascertain only 8 MPs have been murdered since 1812 and six of those by Irish republicans so Jo Cox’s murder is truly seismic and will undoubtedly have far reaching effects. It is probably going to be a Princess Diana moment. The Labour party never fail to mythologise and weaponise such incidents when it suits their political agenda so they will be full out to attribute the motive to the right and/or to the ‘hatred’ (which is being slyly morphed into the public expression of any opposition to left wing internationalist ideology) that they are so determined to criminalise. Ben Bradshaw spoke of the hurt to the “whole Labour family” so the tribalism and hive mind of Labour will quickly take ownership of this.

    It is a terrible thing to have happened, on so many levels, but the real true pain will be felt in Jo Cox’s family and we should be wary of other manifestations or expressions of it.

  154. Re: Battle of the Thames – Sneerin’ Bob (Geldorf) vs fishermen.

    Just to underline what sort of ghastly hypocritical venal scumbag we are dealing with, here are two articles from the Australian DT:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sir-bob-geldof-wants-100000-for-anti-povery-speech/story-e6freuy9-1111118041648

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/bob_geldofs_charity_talk_is_a_lot_of_blarney/

    Both articles presumably written before journalism died.

    Most amused by the Russell Brand quote in the above: “It’s no surprise he’s such an expert on famine. He has been dining out on I Don’t Like Mondays for 30 years.”

    Probably the most amusing, and the truest words that old @rustyrockets has ever uttered!

  155. Reading further through the Liddle comments thread I see that telemachus posted something that provoked many outraged comments against him and then apparently edited his original to remove whatever had offended. I can only imagine with horror what it might have been.

    The whole Liddle thing is truly disgusting and I am surprised that Fraser Nelson tolerates such low discourse given his stance over the old CHW.

  156. EC June 17th, 2016 – 10:03

    Indeed. And not as though he doesn’t have the vast personal wealth (£100m) to defray any expenses in attending. The odious Geldof might be big on African poverty but he appears to have a blind spot when it comes to his own greed.

  158. Colonel Mustard – 10:01

    The is already a wide degree of mistrust of the MSM here, in Europe, and in the USA. In the UK this mistrust has amplified recently by the MSM’s acting as a megaphone for the outrageous, absurd, and surreal lies being propagated by the political cabal with a vested interest in a “Remain” outcome of the referendum.

    One hopes that there is at least one investigative journalist of integrity out there who will get to the truth of this tragic episode. If the MSM get caught out spinning a lie, or a half truth, for political purposes then they will be finished for good, if not a considerably period of time.

  159. Speaking of egregious venal scumbags…

    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/hillary-fundraises-off-orlando-terrorist-attack/

    Also…
    Not wanting to indulge in the political opportunism that she accuses Donald Trump of, this morning she said that, “she was horrified by the assassination”. So it’s an assassination now, is it. In Australia Malcolm Turdball called it an assassination as well.

    Q. How can it be an “assassination” if the MP wasn’t the primary target of the gun/knife wielding nutter, as was first reported before operation spin got going?

    I am reminded of this:
    “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.”
    WSC

  160. I have watched communists (and whatever else they like to call themselves) up close and personal across the globe throughout my whole life. The one thing that they can be relied upon and which runs through their ideology like names through seaside rock is to twist the truth to suit their ends.

    The sad thing is how often their version is swallowed, hook, line and sinker and how rarely it is called out and exposed for what it is. They seem to have a Mephistophelian hold on the media and public psyche which allows them to get away with things that for other political parties would not be tolerated for five minutes. I hesitate to attribute a religious element to that but there is something almost supernatural about the insidiousness of their falsehoods.

  161. Col. Mustard et al. – stop overthinking the death of a socialist. As Billy Connolly said (in a different vein) “Every time there’s a bang, the world is one wanker less”. Celebrate that.

    Labour will eulogise and sanctify but, who cares on our side of the divide? She is of the mob that sang Ding-Dong, the Witch is dead when Thatcher passed so F**k ’em. The only ones who care are other socialist and the contents of the Westminster bubble who have suddenly recognised their mortality.

    And perhaps the useless nigger might reflect on the fact that, in a country with a total ban on guns, somebody still managed to shoot a politician. Blowing away a bunch of sodomisers and muff-munchers might just have had more to do with the killer and his vile creed than the method of slaughter.

  163. “According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.

    ‘Mair… sent just over $620 to the NA, according to invoices for goods purchased from National Vanguard Books, the NA’s printing imprint. Mair purchased subscriptions for periodicals published by the imprint and he bought works that instruct readers on the “Chemistry of Powder & Explosives,” “Incendiaries,” and a work called “Improvised Munitions Handbook.” Under “Section III, No. 9” (page 125) of that handbook, there are detailed instructions for constructing a “Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition” from components that can be purchased from nearly any hardware store.’”
    *
    Douglas Murray is still working on an angle here and has not yet posted

  164. Colonel Mustard @ 10:01

    Well put, Colonel.

    The BBC Radio4 World at One fronted by Mark Mardell devoted a full 35 minutes to the murder, listening to it one would have thought Mrs Cox was the best politician ever to walk the earth, Jesus cum Mother Terese rolled into one, but amazingly she wasn’t a member of the Shadow Cabinet. How is it the cumryd has overlooked her?

    All of those making contributions were of the same phylum as her, all do gooders of the highest caliber like Ed Miliband and Lady Kinnock who kept stressing the point that every politician’s doing the job ‘not for personal gain, ‘not to feather his bed’ were the actual words, but for the benefit of the country. She should know, shouldn’t she.

    It’s to the credit to the former leader of the Labour party to refuse to endorse Mark’s suggestion at speculating on any political implications of the murder, insisted the present should be the time for reflection on her life, empathy for the family.

    The barbarian, too, feels for the family, the dignified response of her husband, the trauma her two children must be going through.

    It would not go down well in our mawkishly sentimental, PC society, but if the barbarian were an MP he would ask the Home Office for the dispensation to own a handgun for personal protection, undergo training for it, carried it concealed without revealing he had it. It may well be the gun wouldn’t help her, but it wouldn’t make things worse, on the contrary, it may have bettered her chances of surviving the attack.

    The programme also included an interview with an American who survived a similar attack by a deranged man in London. He praised the gun laws here said people who wanted to do harm found it hard to get guns, had to make them themselves. No mention of a different interpretation of the tragedy, namely that if someone harbours evil intentions he can always obtain a tool to carry them through.

    What he or Mark failed to mention was that all of the cases of mass murder in the US have been carried out in gun free zones.

    In the Orlando atrocity, the police took 35 minutes to arrive, nobody but the assailant was armed. The jihadi murderer could have had a cup of coffee, still kill everyone in the club, everyone was sitting duck, it must have been awful for many, waiting until the thug gets closer, seeing others getting murdered. It truly beggars belief how the public got so brainwashed on guns.

    A man with a gun is a citizen, a man without one is a subject. Baron forgets who said it, but very true it rings.

  165. Colonel Mustard @ 10:08

    It’s a spoof, Colonel, Rod’s suggestion the referendum should be axed.

    It may well be he did it because the idea of scrapping the count after the murder may have been put forward seriously. The boy must know he’s going to lose, he needs something to avoid the voting, the tragic murder of Mrs Cox may have been it, but thanks to Rod, his recommendation to kill it, the reaction the ‘proposal’ has engendered, the voting on the 23rd will still go ahead, or so one hopes.

  166. telemachus June 17th, 2016 – 14:17

    According to the record on the Spectator’s website we find telemachus posting as ‘Patriccia Shaw’ again. Why is that?

    Might it have something to do with your comment and its rapid retraction on the Liddle thread?

  167. EC @ 10:39

    The woman has no capacity for shame, EC, but then is it something we didn’t know?

  168. Baron June 17th, 2016 – 15:17

    Yes, the gun issue also ignores the fact that he was also armed with a knife.

  170. telemachus @ 14:17

    So run it by the barbarian again, tele. The man has been known to have serious mental deficiencies, was receiving treatment for it. He must have also been known to the Security Services (if he wasn’t someone should be sacked). And yet, he has been allowed to live in a small community as if he were as normal as any law abiding burgher?

    Btw, who keeps a record of a purchase for 17 years? It’s all rather convenient, isn’t it?

  171. Strange comment in the Telegraph article:-

    “Police will investigate whether Mrs Cox, a Cambridge graduate and former adviser to Gordon Brown’s wife Sarah, was targeted because of her support for the Remain campaign.”

    Shouldn’t the police just investigate why she was targeted?

    Something is really beginning to stink about all this.

  172. Frank P

    Glad to see you back, Frank. Wreaking moral TURPitude once more.

    Colonel Mustard 15.58

    What else would we expect, considering that the murder occurred in the West Yorkshire police bailiwick? This is the force whose politically correct senior management mislaid the rampant racist sex child rape gang evidence repeatedly put before them for ten years, lied for 20 years over Hillsborough and in short has a well earned reputation for serial incompetence.

  173. Something smells wrong about this killing, it’s got the David kelly feel to it.
    It looks o k, but alarm bells are ringing.
    By the way, I wonder where Patricia Shaw lives and what her background is. ???

  174. The Spectator carries an article under the heading ‘Jo Cox murder suspect had links to neo-Nazi group: report”, but no postings are allowed. It essentially reports what we know e.g. his brother saying he had mental problems, no interest in politics, also mentions an obscure US outfit (for Baron anyway) that tracks extremist organisations that came up with the stuff on the instruction manual for the pistol. Surprisingly, it doesn’t say whether the outfit passed the information on the potential murderer to the authorities either in the US or here, and if they did what happened to it.

    Btw, except for the year 1999 for the purchase of an instruction manual on a .38 caliber pistol, there hasn’t been much since then. Has he been buying stuff in the years since, or was it a one off

  175. Jo Cox.

    Breitbart reveals that the witness who claims to have heard shouts of Britain First ( Clark Rothwell ) is or was a supporter of the BNP.

    Presumably this is the man who keeps appearing on BBC reports.

    http://bit.ly/1ZWzBR2

  178. Noa (17:45)

    … and if you really want to connect some more dots, it happened on the day when the CPS rejected the allegations against Cliff Richard, following the disgraceful and probably illegal raids by a combined West Yorks, Met. BBC hit squad, with chopper assistance overhead – when the occupant was in a foreign country last year. I’ve seen some fishing expeditions in my time, but this one was of North Atlantic Cod Trawler proportions, accompanied by a similar stink. 🙂

    WTF is going is going on inside HM Cuntstabularies?

    Thank fuck I’m not a conspiracy theorist. There’s a plausible plot there that would sate the lust of Alex Jones and David Icke in their outer space mode. But as ever it’s no doubt a mixture of incompetence, headline grabbing and lack of serious judgement and discretion and the part of so called senior police officers. The tepid wording of the ultimate decision of the CPS is worthy of a lawsuit, but I doubt that he wants to have the shit repeated in yet another circus.

    Meanwhile Muslim rapists and paedophiles continue apace, with little interference by our boys in blue.

  179. The accolades, the heaping of superlatives, the adulation are getting somewhat out of hand. Compare the reaction of the murder of Lee Rigby of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, attacked and killed by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, the haste that story disappeared from the MSM.

    True, Rigby was just a fusilier, not an MP, but he, too, was young, had a son, (was separated from his wife), had a fiancee. Wasn’t his life also cut short? Wasn’t he killed because of ‘well of hate’, something the cumryd said about the murder of Mrs. Cox?

    It seems that we’re all equal, but as Jeffrey said ‘some of us are more equal than others. Sad that.

  180. What a marked difference between the two matches in Group F, the one between the Czechs and Croats, and the other, later on, between Spain and Turkey.

    The Czechs were as bad as the Russians (if not worse), managed somehow to get a draw, but watching the game was pure agony. In contrast, Spain showed why football is the beautiful game. It seemed effortless the way they kicked the ball, pleasure to watch.

    The flares thrown onto the pitch in the former game were an example of the difference between the wild East, the civilised West. It would be a pity if FIFA decided to punish the Croats, the vast majority of the fans, and certainly the players did nothing wrong.

    What puzzles on the FIFA decisions, and it also applies to the Seb Coe’s outfit for athletics whatever it’s called, is that in both cases the country’s associations, the teams get punished i.e. collective punishment for the sins of the few. When the jihadis commit atrocities, it’s never the religious ‘association’, but the individuals who are to blame. A blatant hypocrisy that.

  181. EC @ 18:35

    Amazingly, nobody has mentioned the pensioner who came to Mrs. Cox’s aid, got stabbed, too. Isn’t the man worth at least a mention?

    The ITV News at Ten talked to a young guy who helped the bleeding pensioner (was he a pensioner though). Apart from saying he was trying to stop the flow of blood, the young man said nothing about the murder.

    The murderer’s brother may be lying, of course, but he continues to insist Thomas was not interested in politics. His neighbours are saying the same. How on earth did he keep his clandestine activities secret for so long?

    Does anyone know how many signatures has the petition to delay the referendum gathered? There will be no campaigning tomorrow, and on Sunday, and on Monday. Good excuse to postpone the vote, you reckon?

  182. Jo Cox.

    Ludiciously `Disqus` at the Spec. will not accept the word `Cox`.

    In other news;her family and friends have set up a funding site for groups close to her heart. One of these is `Hope Not Hate` the group set up by the nasty Nick Lowles.
    It is a Labour group that in recent years has concentrated on attacking UKIP.
    You can get the low-down on it if you (very carefully on the keyboard) search for *NOPE not hope*. This is an independent pro-UKIP group which exposes Lowles and his nastiness.

  183. ORLANDO MASSACRE

    Talking of things that stink, here is an article that looks a little more closely at the murders in the homosexual nightclub a few days ago.

    http://www.phibetaiota.net/2016/06/robert-steele-two-planned-attacks-five-trained-together-they-claim-by-cia-fbi-may-be-repressing-evidence/
    (h/t Public Intelligence Blog)

    A couple of extracts”

    “…02 The FBI is know to have a massive program for nurturing terrorists right up to the point they are about to commit a terrorist act with funding, guidance, and even weapons provided by the FBI (they are also coached into putting incriminating posts to the Internet and making incriminating open visits, such as the Boston Bombing patsy going to firecracker stores to buy firecrackers in quantity).

    03 The FBI is a massive bureaucracy engaged in thousands of cases every days, tens of thousands of cases every year, and in my view is roughly 90% good people trapped in a bad system…..

    …My speculative assumption:

    There is an FBI unit that is charged with carrying out covert operations in the USA that is authorized to kill US citizens in order to advance the President’s gun control agenda. “Anything goes” now. This unit is probably working with GS4, Wackenhut, whatever Blackwater is called these days, and others, all eager to do the dirty at taxpayer expense….”

    Our governments have become the rule of the unspeakable over the largely unteachable.

  185. EU referendum – Senior general Lord Guthrie switches sides and comes out for Brexit
    Daily Telegraph headline

  186. “Wealthy Hampstead residents told to ‘dress down’ and fight thieves with an umbrella after spate of robberies”
    Daily Telegraph headline

    Well past time for the CHW to campaign for the establishment of the citizen’s right to bear arms.

  187. Baron
    June 17th, 2016 – 23:20

    Some might call you mealy mouthed

    But you have hit your screwdriver in the groove

    This is brilliant

    What we are seeing is the coincidence of societal hysteria with an urgent desire of the Establishment to gag the Leave campaign

    Some have gone further: Channel 4 News last night had an extended segment with Brendan Cox and the kids on a dinghy on the Thames earlier in the week flying the “In” flag. It went on to say that Jo passionately believed in Europe

    John Bercow is in on it
    He has recalled Parliament Monday, effectively gagging the Campaign until Tuesday when most folk are busy at work

    The Remain know that all the major National players who are talking on television about Jo and the issue of the death of an MP are well known for strong remain views
    So Remain continue with undiluted Party Political Broadcasts of the understated kind that Joe Public loves

    Brilliant

    Did this tragedy guarantee the future peace of Europe

  188. “Something is Going On” – And It’s Worse Than You Thought

    Are the unteachable being taught?

    ‘… in the wake of the Orlando massacre, Donald Trump said the following on Fox: “Something is going on. He doesn’t get it, or he gets it better than anybody understands. It’s one or the other.” Reiterating this trope later on in the same show, he averred that the President “is not tough, not smart – or he’s got something else in mind.” ‘

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-17/something-going-%E2%80%93-and-its-worse-you-thought

    Footnote: Also on Zero Hedge: ‘First Brexit Poll After Jo Cox Death Reveals Stunning Result’ (Guess what)

  189. telemachus June 18th, 2016 – 04:42

    A perfect example of the kind of boastful hubris and provocation that is your multi-guised stock in trade.

    So, telemachus, shape-shifting sociopath, why did you entreat us to give the ISIS “Caliph” a “fair hearing”?

  191. BREXIT False Flag: Patsy Gardener

    David Knight of Infowars.com takes a look at the implications of the death of Jo Cox. David Cameron’s Reichstag Fire?

    “I smell a rat”, says David Knight, observing the loaded comments on the accused from the Southern Poverty Law Center in the USA and the contradictory statements from his accused’s neighbours and relatives. “This is the portrait of a patsy.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4TOeUaif3Y

  193. ” why did you entreat us to give the ISIS “Caliph” a “fair hearing”? ”
    *
    You will recall that when we first heard of IS, it was one of many rebel groups that had sprung up in the aftermath of the disastrous invasion of Iraq orchestrated by the American Christian Right led by Bush (and his prayer mat Downing street acolyte)
    *
    You will also recall that in my original posts on this I contextualised the situation with the Bush rhetoric about Crusade and his crazy warship parading triumphalism
    *
    I regard Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney war criminals although it is Blair who will find himself in the Hague after Chilcot next month
    *
    Given all that, I and Patriccia were intemperate until things became a little clearer
    I have previously apologised for our intemperance

  194. This is not being posted through smugness. I thought it was interesting and of course labour were in local control most oh the period he writes about.
    An elegy for Oldham

    My home town of Oldham is the sort of place people imagine when they think of ‘The North’. It has mill chimneys, redbrick terraced streets and a rain-swept football ground (the third highest in the country) where supporters of the perpetually struggling Oldham Athletic queue for hot Vimto or a bag of black peas.

    Oldham is now the most deprived town in England, according to the Office for National Statistics. Crime and unemployment are high; investment, wages and prospects generally are pitifully low. Boarded-up shops and dilapidated factories tell a sorry tale of economic woe.

    It wasn’t always like this. My family’s home, in the leafy suburb of Werneth, was in one of many large houses built around 1900 for the managers of the local textile mills. From the fine mahogany mantelpieces to the art-nouveau fittings, everything was of the best, testimony to the industrial wealth that once coursed through Oldham’s veins. I attended the local grammar school, where the head, a Balliol man, was proud to send a regular cohort of pupils to Oxbridge.

    Assessing what has gone wrong is not straightforward, because Oldham — or some of it at least — has always been deprived. Well-heeled as Werneth was, there was still a derelict coal mine just up the road, while at the other end of that same road were slums of real Orwellian squalor. On my way to the sweet shop I could peep through a sooty brick archway into a Lowry-like world of tiny, crumbling homes arranged around a filthy courtyard. Thin, ragged children would play around a central block of outdoor privies. And this was in the 1970s.

    By the 1980s, things had improved. The slums had been cleared and replaced by a four-star hotel. The pit became a landscaped park. Clubs playing the new romantics prospered side by side with traditional boozers where old boys in flat caps would spin a yarn in return for a half of mild. Oldham was hardly rich, and it has never been beautiful, but there was an energy about the place. That energy helped the town to thrive, at least relatively speaking, into the early 1990s. Oldham produced the ‘Madchester’ band Inspiral Carpets. Athletic even made it to the Premier League.

    And something in this highly textured environment of contrasts seemed to foster individual genius. My local primary nurtured the disparate talents of composer William Walton and the former England football captain David Platt. At my grammar, the DJ Andy Kershaw was in the year above me, and the particle physicist Brian Cox was a few years below — as was the actress Sarah Lancashire. Indeed the place has long been a breeding ground for thespian talent, including Anna Friel, Agyness Deyn, Eric Sykes, Bernard Cribbins and pretty much everyone who has ever been in Coronation Street.

    It is telling that none of the above stayed in the town once their stars began to rise. Walton, sent on a scholarship to Oxford, claimed that he was inspired to compose by a desire to stay in the south. ‘I must make myself interesting somehow,’ he said, ‘or I’ll be sent home to Oldham.’

    I must admit, I don’t go back much either. As one fellow émigré put it: ‘Oldham these days? It’s like a work camp that’s been struck.’ This is pretty accurate. Textiles and engineering, the town’s former raisons d’être, have fallen victim to globalisation and cheaper imports. Attempts have been made to replace jobs with higher-tech alternatives, but successes are few and clearly not enough.

    Tensions rose between the white and Asian communities, culminating in three days of rioting in 2001. Afterwards, promises were made to listen to the concerns of a white community that felt it had been forgotten, and to promote the integration of the increasing Asian population. Sadly though, efforts have been undermined by a fatally muddled approach to urban renewal.

    For example, I used to visit a pub on Manchester Road called the Black Horse. It was a rambling place bedecked with colourful Victorian tiles and a great picture on the wall of the Last Supper, in which Christ and his disciples were played by the landlord and his regulars. It was frequented by chalk-faced goths but also by immigrants from Pakistan who would play cards, drink the local bitter and shoot pool. The bar area was popular with the gay crowd, and we all listened to the local blues legend Victor Brox play in the big room at the side. This was multiculturalism — tolerant and unforced.

    But the Black Horse was flattened when the junction it stood on was widened. So was the magnificently ornate fire station opposite. Oldham has enough problems without this kind of cultural vandalism, though the resultant dual carriageway does at least provide a rapid exit from the town. On the way out, you can see that most of the pubs that weren’t demolished are now boarded up. You pass through the once-busy suburb of Hollinwood, now divided by the widened road and mostly derelict.

    How did it come to this? The planners certainly have a lot to answer for, but the trend towards a stricter form of Islam has not helped either. The corner shops no longer sell bacon, the men do not drink, women are far more likely to wear a jilbab, and for many Muslims interfaith marriage is taboo. Living apart as they do, it is all too easy for whites and Asians to blame each other for their shared economic plight.

    Trying to make one community integrate with another is a little like arranged marriage: it can work, but only if other factors are favourable. Poverty, however, is not conducive; nor is the crass destruction of a town’s heritage and identity.

    Meanwhile, the planners are at it again. A splurge of new housing is disfiguring the neighbouring Pennine countryside and helping to facilitate white flight on a grand scale. Much of Oldham’s population has fled, leaving the town itself, characterised now as much by mosques as chimneys, to become a ghetto.

    As visiting football fans chant: poor old Oldham, poor old Oldham.

    More Spectator for less. Stay informed leading up to the EU referendum and in the aftermath. Subscribe and receive 6 issues delivered for just £6, with full web and app access. Join us.

  195. John
    I recognise some of that
    Oldham is a classic example of the effects of industrial decline if there is no planning for the post industrial era
    *
    Oldham together with Bolton, Bury and Rochdale existed in the lee of the Pennines and as such were perfect for the spinning of fine quality cotton
    On the back of that they became rich and proud
    The inhabitants simply knew that they lived in the most perfect part of the greatest country on earth
    Then the decline, the cutting of costs, the drive to cheap labour meaning Indian subcontinent takeover at a time before our movement introduced the minimum wage
    *
    This led to the blame by the indigenous of the immigrants for all their woes
    *
    No one recognised the danger
    Nobody worked at it
    No one invested
    *
    It is why Nick Griffin and his successors Farage and Evans have been so successful in the North
    *
    I know many folk who live in Oldham, Bolton, Bury and Rochdale
    They cry out for investment
    They grieve at the concentration of resources in the smug Home Counties

  196. Here’s the timetable for non-referendum.

    The petition to delay will gather more than 100,000 signatures, this should be no problem, a mid-competent code writer can fix it in no time. The House is recalled for Monday to honour Mrs. Cox, the Speaker will rule MPs must, as the result of the massive support for the idea of postponement, debate the issue.

    The majority in the House has always been, will now be even more for remaining, that’s how the debate, and the vote after it will move.

    After the delay, the planners will decide whether to have it anyway, or if we may go for scrapping it altogether what with the totally devastating consequences fon the UK economy, the wellbeing of Europe’s civilisation, the earth’s rotation around its axis, the existence of the Universe itself.

    Or, they may fix it for a future date (to be announced by the Government), have a long running campaign in which they will discredit anyone who’s ever been for brexit.

    Any bet the prediction works out as the barbarian says?

  197. telemachus June 18th, 2016 – 07:47

    ISIS had already committed appalling atrocities by then, as was pointed out to you at the time.

    Not so much intemperance as the mask slipping and being quickly replaced.

  198. Baron – 08:33

    Anything is possible, but I reckon the fix was in, even before the recent tragic event.

    I don’t think the referendum will be cancelled as the emotional outpouring will be a perfect explanation for the result going contrary the recent, strengthening polls indicating a BRexit.

    The hum of fibrillating sphincters in No10 and elsewhere will have calmed considerably.

  199. telemachus June 18th, 2016 – 08:29

    “Nick Griffin and his successors Farage and Evans”

    That is really scraping the barrel, even for you, low crawling creature that you are, slime trailing your lies.

  200. Baron, June 17th, 2016 – 23:20

    Excellent point that you made contrasting the treatment of the equally unfortunate Lee Rigby and Ms. Cox. However, when it happens that one of the ruling elite are actually mortal, then we are treated to something akin to a jackdaw’s funeral.

  202. Malfleur June 18th, 2016 – 07:39

    The comments thread on Weston’s article appears to have been colonised by ranting Anglophobes.

    Dymphna’s polemic on British history is tripe from beginning to end. The axe being ground is blind to the way other European countries ran and exited from their colonies. So Anglophone begets Anglophobe.

  204. The EU is well lampooned as EUSSR. That is what it is becoming and Juncker reminds me of East Germany’s Honecker.

    Time to LEAVE.

  205. “…reports of links to an organisation of the extreme right,…, led inevitably to the suggestion that Jo, a passionate campaigner for Britain to remain in Europe, had effectively become a martyr of a bitter referendum campaign and a woman murdered for her beliefs”

    Mary Riddell
    Page 7 DT 18 June

    Well it was not I

  206. This is interesting. Covers some old ground but there’s some new stuff in there as well.

    Hillary Clinton’s Corruption Crisis | Roger Stone and Stefan Molyneux

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lyIXjvlBzY

    In the video they refer to M. Stanton Evans’ book, “Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America’s Enemies ”

    I’m tempted to buy it. Has anybody else here read it?

    NB. telemarcuse you do not need to reply, but please do not hesitate to fuck off.

  207. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068/

    Accused of creating a bogus Red Scare and smearing countless innocent victims in a five-year reign of terror, Senator Joseph McCarthy is universally remembered as a demagogue, a bully, and a liar. History has judged him such a loathsome figure that even today, a half century after his death, his name remains synonymous with witch hunts.

    But that conventional image is all wrong, as veteran journalist and author M. Stanton Evans reveals in this groundbreaking book. The long-awaited Blacklisted by History, based on six years of intensive research, dismantles the myths surrounding Joe McCarthy and his campaign to unmask Communists, Soviet agents, and flagrant loyalty risks working within the U.S. government. Evans’s revelations completely overturn our understanding of McCarthy, McCarthyism, and the Cold War.

    Drawing on primary sources—including never-before-published government records and FBI files, as well as recent research gleaned from Soviet archives and intercepted transmissions between Moscow spymasters and their agents in the United States—Evans presents irrefutable evidence of a relentless Communist drive to penetrate our government, influence its policies, and steal its secrets. Most shocking of all, he shows that U.S. officials supposedly guarding against this danger not only let it happen but actively covered up the penetration. All of this was precisely as Joe McCarthy contended.

    Blacklisted by History shows, for instance, that the FBI knew as early as 1942 that J. Robert Oppenheimer, the director of the atomic bomb project, had been identified by Communist leaders as a party member; that high-level U.S. officials were warned that Alger Hiss was a Soviet spy almost a decade before the Hiss case became a public scandal; that a cabal of White House, Justice Department, and State Department officials lied about and covered up the Amerasia spy case; and that the State Department had been heavily penetrated by Communists and Soviet agents before McCarthy came on the scene.

    Evans also shows that practically everything we’ve been told about McCarthy is false, including conventional treatment of the famous 1950 speech at Wheeling, West Virginia, that launched the McCarthy era (“I have here in my hand . . .”), the Senate hearings that casually dismissed his charges, the matter of leading McCarthy suspect Owen Lattimore, the Annie Lee Moss case, the Army-McCarthy hearings, and much more.

    In the end, Senator McCarthy was censured by his colleagues and condemned by the press and historians. But as Evans writes, “The real Joe McCarthy has vanished into the mists of fable and recycled error, so that it takes the equivalent of a dragnet search to find him.” Blacklisted by History provides the first accurate account of what McCarthy did and, more broadly, what happened to America during the Cold War. It is a revealing exposé of the forces that distorted our national policy in that conflict and our understanding of its history since.

  208. I see that sadiq Khan has adjudged British politics as ‘poisonous’. For once I agree with a politician. Any system that throws up a Muslim as Toytown Mayor of London has to be seriously toxic given what’s happening around the globe. Moreover his statement was delivered without a trace of irony. I suggest that Mayor’ Yes-We-Khan’ returns to the native country of his parents and give that a go instead. 😉

  209. “Death to Traitors! Freedom for Britain!!”

    And there we were adjudging him mad. Definitely bad and dangerous to know – but mad? Not on that statement. The jury will have a dilemma to unravel, there.

  210. EC (09:52)

    “The hum of fibrillating sphincters”.

    Kindly refrain from repeating that phrase, pro tem. It resonates painfully in my nether regions. 😉 🙂

  211. Any poison in British politics has been injected into it for about 50 years by the left. Khan should not confuse the first symptoms of rejection by the host with the infection.

  212. Frank P June 18th, 2016 – 12:29

    The learned magistrate thought those sentiments warranted examination by a psychiatrist, which says it all really.

  213. telemachus @ 10:08

    Obviously, tele, there are more deluded nitwits walking the streets of this country, which must be comforting for you, less so for others.

    What truly bugs Baron, should do others, too, is the irony that seems to be lost on the anointed.

    When it comes to a certified loony (he went to a local ‘walk in’ clinic 24 hours before he totally lost it pleading for help), the blame attaches to an outfit that claims, rightly, to have nothing to do with him. When the two murderers of Rigby, the young fusilier by now forgotten by the MSM, openly proclaimed over and over again they were Muslims, anyone even hinting at the connection was labelled bigoted,racist, islamophobic.

    Why the double standard, sooner or later even those largely uninterested in politics must wise up to it, act accordingly when they have a chance. It’s immature, mendacious, self defeating.

  214. (10:08)

    “Well it was not I”

    Pretentious use of the singular first person noun.

    And yes, it was not you, it was the pale-faced lank-haired hackess who was recruited to the once-labelled-Torygraph by the Barclay borgata to attract useful eejits to bolster it’s circulation. It succeeded in the first part of its objective obviously, but seemingly not the second, which is fast dribbling away ( like you).

    Now fuck off and dribble elsewhere! I see that the Colonel has kindly been effectively pooper scooping the dogshit from the Wall in my absence. Who let that fucking cur on to the curtilage again?

  215. Btw, in a source that has been ‘disappeared’ today it was alleged her husband had to resign a highly paid job with ‘Save the Children’ before Christmas last year because of allegations of sexual misconduct and financial irregularities. It didn’t say he was himself implicated, merely that he had to resign.

    Has anyone come across this nugget of information?

    And the question the barbarian has asked before, hasn’t been answered yet. If she were as brilliant as everyone of the Left leaning phylum is now saying, why wasn’t she in the Shadow Cabinet in at least a junior post? Tele must know, he should enlighten us, no?

  216. … and before you point out ‘it’s’ as a grammatical error – it was the robotic eejits who programmed the auto-checker wot did it, not me!

  217. EC @ 10:14

    Nothing on the Arizona Senator, EC, but wasn’t Robert Oppenheimer fully cleared by not one but a number of investigations? One would be foolish to believe the KGB (that he was a member of the communist party), it may have been a fake planted by them to get the brilliant scientist out of a job. Even his arch rival, the Hungarian Edward Teller has acknowledged it.

  218. And this, EC.

    Before the barbarian spends money on a book he’s uncertain about he borrows if from the library, you may do likewise.

  219. Baron 13.14
    Double standard or not the current situation is playing well into the hands of the forces of reason (Remain)
    Death to traitors. freedom for Britain
    Worth 100,000 lectures from Cameron, Jeremy, Lagarde, Carney and Brown

  220. Sorry Frank. You need to keep your blood pressure down to aid healing
    *
    I will do as you say

  221. Baron (13:21)

    I once investigated Oxfam for an independent TV company, as part of a wide-ranging probe into the Charities Industry and the toothless Charities Commission. Had they paid attention to my findings and not succumbed to pressure from the Great and the Good (aka the numerous well paid patrons and apparatchiks (Royal or just plain celebrity) who leech off gullible donors in cash or in kind) the unfortunate Ms Cox and her spouse may well have had to find honest employment elsewhere. Who knows? Maybe she would not then have attracted the attention of an angry constituent who violently disapproved of the policies of successive governments to destroy the culture of Great Britain and turn great swathes of it over to inimical aliens. But then, as I have oft averred, as a determinist, I have to accept what is inevitable. Suggest everyone else does the same. Que sera sera – as dear Doris warbled.

    Maybe BRexit is already written in the stars? I am ‘determined’ to follow my urges in that regard. It’s time that fate dealt us a winning hand, our cup no longer Runners over. 🙂

  223. Could anyone who gives his name in the dock as ‘death to traitors, freedom for Britain’ be of sound mind?

    Only in contemporary, PC, gender fluid Britain, Baron reckons, where everything’s abnormally normal (or should it be normally abnormal?).

  224. Peter from Maidstone

    I thought John Birch posted a fine essay at 07:50 as Elegy for Oldham. Could we revive our former practice since fallen into desuetude and post it as a stand alone item, perhaps with a couple of before and after photographs,for a few weeks.
    –

  225. telemachus
    June 18th, 2016 – 13:36 – but just one more
    *
    Douglas has broken cover
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/cant-show-decency-jo-coxs-death/
    *
    He cannot stop himself
    *
    We have a white supremacist gunning down a Remain MP whose husband had one of the best visual images of the campaign in the dinghy with his children
    *
    And what does Douglas say

    “And yes, this is the same Laurie Penny who only three days earlier – after the massacre of 49 people in a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida by a gunman shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ – insisted that there were no lessons to be taken from that massacre other than that ‘love wins’.

    Obviously, as with any Islamist gunman, it is vital to track down any network of contacts and guides that the killer might have had.

    They would be doing precisely what we try so hard, unanimously and generally successfully to stop Islamist gunmen from being able to do.”

    *

    The man is an utter discgrace and Speccie should delete all forthcoming posts
    If we want to access this tripe we should go to Gatestone

  226. John Birch (07:50)

    As I am debarred from the hallowed halls of Trolltopia, I can’t trawl that piece first hand. I wonder if you would mind I forming us who authored it? It was a well written elegy and a parable for our times.

  227. Malfleur – 14:50

    Might need to get the Spectatesman’s permission to post Oldham essay as a “special.”
    However, that is a good thought, though.

  230. EC/Tele

    Thank you.

    BTW – having just delved around in the bowels* of my Nexus 7, I finally discovered the button that disables ‘predictive text’. From hereon in, all spelling and grammatical errors will therefore be due to my own abysmal illiteracy and not that of the software idiots who have been plaguing me since I was gifted wirh this gizmo.

    *That phrase came from a Freudian impulse given recent experience, not from the predictive robot. 🙂

  231. Witty postings on a Breibart’ piece about the Russian Olympic ban (rather a breakdown in Brazil’s public services), many are saying ‘good for Russia, at least they won’t suffer from the Zica virus’, to which someone posted: ‘But could even a doped Russian outrun a mosquito?’

  233. You may have missed, but important it is, so here goes (from Velvet Glove, Iron fist):

    “In a statement last week, the U.N. health agency warned that “notwithstanding the current crisis in the country,” Syrian officials should collaborate with the U.N. health agency to control the use of tobacco and water pipes among its people, especially young adults, women and teenagers.

    WHO’s Syria representative, Dr. Elizabeth Hoff, warned that using tobacco and water pipes endangers the health and lives of smokers and people around them. Hoff said using water pipes to smoke shisha, a common pastime in the Middle East, is 20 times more dangerous than cigarette smoking”.

    She hasn’t yet calculated whether bullets flying around may be more life threatening than smoking shisha, but give the girl time, she’ll come up with the answer.

    And many of you think the UN’s useless. How dare you.

  236. EC @ June 18th- 15:42

    Oh, I see. OK, thanks. Can’t be on the qui vive ALL the time! 🙂

  237. Baron @ June 18th – 18:36

    The great thing about Ramadan is that ‘within broadly defined parameters’ you are free to beat up and kill with impunity.

    My own alma mater, the Church of England, might take a leaf and adopt a “Defender of the Faith” dispensation to permit its members to throw muslims out of the country at Easter.Unfortunately, that might require parliament to act and, as the Man said, ‘I never saw so many shocking bad hats in my life’.

    P.S. Who is this Radiohead? Boy George gave a concert here last night and, scanning the news headlines, after almost 35 years I learn that the song’s name is not Cama Camellia. Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must.
    .

  241. This was the top layer of leaders of ‘Save the Children’ charity, their pay way back in 2014. In November last year, the Mail reported (see @08.40), the top man’s salary of £160,000, the salaries of others may have moved the same way.

    Instead of repenting, cutting their remuneration as a result of the criticism, they rewarded themselves more. What a charity.

    http://tapnewswire.com/2014/11/save-the-fat-cats-at-stcf/

  242. Peter Hitchens nails it:-

    “Most of our governing class, especially in the media, politics and the law, is still enslaved by 1960s ideals that have been discredited everywhere they have been tried. These are themselves modified versions of the communist notions that first took hold here in the 1930s.

    But the things they claim to want – personal liberty, freedom of conscience, clean government, equality of opportunity, equality before the law, a compassionate state, a safety net through which none can fall, and a ladder that all can climb – existed here without any of these airy dogmas.

    How annoying that an ancient monarchy, encrusted with tradition, Christian in nature, enforced by hanging judges in red robes, had come so much closer to an ideal society than Trotsky or Castro ever did or ever could.

    The contradiction made the radicals’ brains fizz and sputter. How could this be? If it was so, they were wrong. Utopians, as George Orwell demonstrated, prefer their visions to reality or truth. Two and two must be made to make five, if it suits them.
    So, rather than allow their hearts to lift at the sight of such a success as Britain was, and ashamed to be patriots, they set out to destroy the living proof that they were wrong.

    They took a hammer to our intricate constitution. They dissolved the best state secondary schools in the world and then attacked the best universities in the world for refusing to lower their standards too. They dismantled the most relaxed and generous union of neighbouring nations ever seen in the history of the world. And while they did this, they moved our landmarks, such as our unique coinage and a human, poetic system of weights and measures, polished in use.

    They replaced the advanced world’s only unarmed police force with a baseball-capped, scowling gendarmerie festooned with guns, clubs and gas canisters.

    They presided over a systematic forgetting of our national literature, so that a land where every ploughboy once knew the King James Bible is now full of people to whom the works of Shakespeare, Bunyan, Dickens, Wordsworth and Tennyson may as well be written in Martian.

    They declared themselves ‘Europeans’. They regarded this as superior to their own country. ‘How modern! How efficient!’ they trilled. I have heard them do it.
    They did not notice that the EU was also a secretive, distant and unresponsive monolith, hostile or indifferent to the freedoms we had so carefully created and so doggedly preserved.

    They failed to see that its ‘parliament’ does not even have an opposition, that its executive is accountable to nobody. They inherited jury trial, habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights – the greatest guarantees of human freedom on the planet – and they traded in this solid gold for the worthless paper currency of human rights.

    If they win on Thursday, the process of abolishing Britain will be complete. If they lose, as I hope they do and still think they will, there is a faint, slender chance that we may get our country back one day.”

  243. Colonel Mustard @ 09:50

    It couldn’t be more truthful and uplifting, Colonel, let’s hope we’ll get there on the 23rd.

  244. For those of you who tragically might have missed Nick Cohen

    Drink in his brilliance

    “The English air is as foul as it has been at any point since my childhood. It is as if the sewers have burst. The Leave campaign has captured the worst of England and channelled it into a know-nothing movement of loud mouths and closed minds. It is easy to mock, but essential to fight, because the new right could win a victory that may never be reversed.

    If you do not want to be saying: “I want my country back” for the rest of your life, my best advice is not sell it out on Thursday.

    You get a measure of the unashamed charlatanry of the men who ask for your votes, if you remember that the leaders of the Leave faction once posed as compassionate conservatives. Not so long ago, Boris Johnson wanted an amnesty for illegal immigrants so that frightened people living beyond the rule of law were not “lost in the undergrowth”. That was when he was mayor of liberal London. Now Johnson is using fear of immigrants as a crowbar to force his way into Downing Street and Nigel Farage can ruffle his pupil’s hair with paternal pride and tell Channel 4 News he “couldn’t be happier” his boy is following “my strategy”.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/18/eu-referendum-vote-leave-campaign-poisonous

  246. telemachus @ 11:57

    If you lace it with an enema laxative why not, tele, it will get you, the anointed Nick where you both belong.

    The mentally unsound man’s concerns are justified, the action he took is abhorrent, he should pay for it if it’s found he can stand trial.

    The people of this country have never been asked if they wanted mass, uncontrolled immigration from a pre-medical culture. If anything, the Tory manifesto promised to bring it down to tens of thousands, the boy demonstrably failed, failed because undemocratic Brussels is in charge, since we cannot vote any of the facilitators of the immigration tsunamis out of office, we have every right to get out of the club, and we will, that will be the time to have a drink.

  247. It should be ‘pre-medieval’ and not ‘pre-medical’, the barbarian didn’t check before clicking on the Comment button, sorry.

  249. BREXIT vs.THE HISTORIAN WITH A HEART AS BIG AS THE HEAD OF A BABY

    CHWs will remember that back in April Mark Steyn with Nigel Farage in support took Simon Schama apart on stage in the Munk debate on refugees in Torono. Schama as a contributing editor of the Financial Times is a paid schill for the New World Order and its satanic plan for the collapse of civilised life in the West, now well advanced not least as a result of the masses of immigrants, legal and illegal, pouring into western Europe and the United States, and with a reserve army of 75,000,000 moslems from Turkey about to be given visas to travel in our direction with perhaps a good percentage to sojourn in Britain for a century or two…

    Standing on the shoulders of his work as a historian, and assisted by the shilling of the globalists, Schama has created a second career as a a social guru and media personality. At this critical juncture in western history, as Britain stiffens its sinews for the referendum to decide whether it is to be or not to be, the Pink One this weekend throws into its propaganda war to win a world not worth living an article packed with the base polemic and fatuous arguments of its creature Mr. Schama, already so degradingly on display last April. The following is an extract:

    “Surfing the moral sewer, the UK Independence party’s latest poster, smugly unveiled by its leader Nigel Farage, features the slogan “Breaking Point” next to a crowd of desperate refugees. It is an image of unforgettable malignancy which will make anyone with a heart immediately want to spend time in their, rather than his, company.”

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/7c7f2dbe-3474-11e6-bda0-04585c31b153.html#axzz4C16kRUT8

    Without engaging with the seriousness of the threat and indeed the reality of vast increases in unassimilable foreign populations, Schama tries to win the argument by comparing the contribution of modest waves of immigrants to Britain in the past, including incongruously the Normans, with the benefits which his generous heart guarantees will be generated by alien and hostile groups similar to those which wrecked the classical world – about which one would have expected him to have more to say.

    But he is set on demonstrating what a big heart he has and who are the British people to deny him that opportunity – the birthright of every liberal? And Schama, like Kilroy in Tennessee Williams’s Camino Real, has a heart as big as a baby’s head and it could burst at any time….and it’s solid gold.

    In fact, as Mr. Schama invokes his immigrant parents in this article as somehow lending weight to his argument that any suggestion that the numbers of immigrants today have reached breaking point is scurrilous, may I make a modest proposal? I invite Mr. Schama to venture for an hour or two into the heart of each of five large provincial English cities, Luton, Blackburn, Birmingham, Bradford and Leicester for instance, carrying some suitable symbol of his immigrant heritage, an Israeli flag perhaps.He should be accompanied by a reliable reporter to record events.

    Alternatively, should this risk that his great heart might burst, I recommend that Schama turn to page 3 of the Life and Arts section of the current edition of the Weekend FT in which he will find an account by Martin Wolf of his lunch with Baron Turner of Ecchinswell (Adair Turner) who agrees with Wolf that immigration is problematic if unlimited and who therefore appears to be swimming in the same moral sewer as Schama has cast Mr. Farage and his millions of Britiish supporters.”If immigration were the only issue, I could be a Brexiter”, he says. “The British population is forecast to go up from 63m to 74m by 2040…[end of the Greenbelt/increase in unskilled means lowering of wages for locals]…and you can’t control your borders unless you’re out.”

    As for Mr. Schama, the rankling sense of grievance left by the pasting he received from Mark Steyn and Nigel Farage in Toronto fits well with the brief from his globalist newspapers to stick it to Brexit on immigration, logic or no logic.

  250. “Surfing the moral sewer, the UK Independence party’s latest poster, smugly unveiled by its leader Nigel Farage, features the slogan “Breaking Point” next to a crowd of desperate refugees.”

    Hmm. “Desperate refugees” who are overwhelmingly young, fit and male. Where are their womenfolk and children? Their mothers, aunts, grandmothers, wives, daughters and sisters?

    Anyone viewing those snaking columns of well-clothed military aged masculinity and not asking themselves that question needs their head examining.

  251. Cohen, always as like to miss by a mile as hit anywhere near the target, re-imagines the Leave campaign as being wholly the purview of the “far right”, a grouping itself now being gormlessly attributed to anyone who is not a cliché peddling, emotionally incontinent social justice warrior.

    Amusing to imagine the sorcerer’s apprentice telemachus scrabbling around for something to counter Hitchens, whose whole point he misses by a mile, and finding nothing better than Cohen’s bitter draught playing the men rather than the ball. It contains about as much brilliance as a pint of vomit.

  253. And this one from Janet Daley in similar vein:

    How did the Remain campaign get the British character so wrong?

    · JANET DALEY
    18 JUNE 2016 • 4:36PM

    “…….How is it that those very politicians who reacted to a startling tragedy with such immediate, faultless responsiveness to the national mood, could have been failing for weeks to show the slightest understanding of how their own countrymen think?

    Almost from the off, and certainly since the going got rough, the Remain leadership in Downing Street has given out what seemed an almost explicit message that they know nothing about the people they govern – and what they do know, they don’t like……

    ……. So I now have a very firm idea of what the British are like – and they are not going to be bullied or frightened like silly children.

    When somebody tells them that the world will come to an end if they do not do as they are told, their first response is to laugh, because they have been tested before and know they can survive, and the second is to become suspicious: why are these people trying to scare me? What’s in it for them? Hence, the conspiracy theories about elites and self-serving vested interests. If you have a persuasive positive case, you do not – thinks the voter – throw a sheet over your head in a darkened room and go: “Woooo, woooo.”

    Perhaps, as I say, coming from somewhere else, I note and appreciate these things more than those for whom they are normal and predictable. But I am still amazed by the idiotic mistakes that have been made. How could David Cameron and George Osborne not have known any of this: not have understood that they were not intimidating voters but insulting them? This gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “out of touch”.

    Cameron accused of waffling by English studen21
    As the warnings became more palpably absurd, they were replaced by threats, culminating in a particularly nasty one for Brexit-inclined pensioners: the promised triple lock on state pensions, which had been an article of faith with Mr Cameron since the beginning of his premiership could be withdrawn if the old gits had the temerity to vote the wrong way.

    I thought that was about as low as it could go, until George Osborne came along with his Punishment Budget which would, if it ever got through Parliament, lock the country into a loop of Greek-style recession.

    That really went well. I have never seen a politician explode so spectacularly. There weren’t even any pieces left lying around afterwards, just a kind of sticky residue.

    This disconnect with the people has confirmed the widely accepted view of the Cameron-Osborne Tory leadership as – how to put this? – rather odd. On the one hand, they are so self-consciously modern and anti-traditional that they made gay marriage one of their flagship policies. But on the other, they seem so loftily contemptuous of the real‑life concerns of ordinary people that they make comic misjudgments about the effects of their public pronouncements.

    Years ago, I worked with someone who was a habitual liar. He would blithely give colleagues completely false and conflicting reports about events and office conversations. We would all, of course, compare notes and discover the clumsy deceptions (“But he told me that you said…” etc, etc), which rendered the whole strategy demonstrably useless. But strangely, it never seemed to occur to him that we were able to do this: talk among ourselves and come to our own conclusions about what was really happening.

    In a peculiar way, the Remain leadership seems to have the same flawed – almost childlike – illusion. They appear to think that we will simply believe whatever they tell us however much it conflicts with our own lived experience. They may be in for a surprise.”

    Our old pal Furriskey teed this one up. Not sure where it was pub;ished; probably the Barclay Bugle. Disseminate.

  255. Alexandr
    Welcome back
    Please tell me you will not get into bed with the tainted gang puppeteered by Farage on Thursday
    What will you tell your Grandchildren if Brexit wins as we decline physically and morally

  257. Colonel Mustard – 15:28

    Cohen is a mess. Labour’s innate antisemitism sent him into a tailspin recently. Cohen, Massie et al, and their opinions don’t even amount to a fart in a colander in the grand scheme of things. It’s predominately only the wankerati who reads them anyway.

  258. Baron – 13:03

    Do not be deceived by any polls that are presented in the coming days. I fully expect the polls, and the MSM news, to be manipulated in order to sway the feeble minded to vote Remain. The only poll that matters now is the one on Thursday.

    BRexit!

  260. Frank P @ 15:35

    Janet’s right, Frank, but her line of argument reminded the barbarian of a silly joke. A man visiting a friend who owns a massive dog that barks uncontrollably. The owner says ‘worry don’t, don’t you know the saying that dogs that bark don’t bite?’ ‘I know it’, says the visitor, ‘but does the dog?’

    Britain’s unwashed ain’t what they were when you’ve in charge of things, you know.

    Still, the barbarian reckons brexit will win the day.

  261. The silly Scottish SNP woman got angry about a poster showing hordes of immigrants. Why? Just look at them. Does any of them, just one of them look like a suffering, hungry, war-torn refugee?

  264. I know how much the power houses round here love QT
    Watch the brilliance of Cameron on Dimbleby’s BBC 1 right now

  265. There’s a great system on Disqus now where you can block a user. That means that in a thread of comments all the blocked user’s comments become invisible. I’ve started using it at Guido Fawkes site and will be using it at the Speccie to block the UnionJihack gang and telemachus. Won’t even have to see their crap any more.

    Could we have it here please?

  267. Tetley 19.04

    No so much watching a ‘brilliant Cameron’ as seeing Lord Halifax triumph over Winston Churchill in the constest for PM.
    As counter factual, one hopes, as a Referendum vote for Remain.

  268. Baron
    “Malfleur @ 14:07 Good stuff, Malfleur, well argued, too.”

    Yes, excellent post Malfleur.

  271. telemachus June 19th, 2016 – 20:46

    Au contraire. The prospect of being able to read threads of comments without your predictable rubbish scattered through them makes me very happy.

    There are several things you might usefully take from that fact. Less is more, for example (a lot less in your case). Or that your interminable hubris and boasting are no substitutes for reality. And that your taste for provocation and making mischief is counter productive to your cause. Etc. But you won’t take those things because you have a brass neck, an ego the size of an elephant and, apparently, a solid block of hard wood between the ears that you continue to batter ineffectually against the CHW.

  272. Project Fear 2016/06/17
    LONDON german-foreign-policy.com interviewed Lave Knud Broch about how in the Danish elite’s EU supporters sought to convince the Danish people in the runups to various EU referendums in Denmark. Lave Knud Broch is a substitute member of the European Parliament for the Danish People’s Movement against the EU.
    german-foreign-policy.com: Next week, the United Kingdom will hold a referendum on whether to remain in the European Union. In 1972, Denmark had held a referendum on entering the EEC. If you compare the way EU supporters are arguing today in the UK and how they were arguing then in Denmark – do you see similarities?

    Lave Knud Broch: Yes, very many. Fear has played a role in all Danish referendums on the EU. In the EEC referendum in 1972, there were threats about unemployment, less investments, that the Danish currency would devaluate and many other things – and also that we had to join the EEC, so that we could continue to sell bacon to the UK. It was obvious that the EU supporters believed that they had to threaten the Danes, just as they are doing in the UK today.

    gfp.com: What about in Denmark’s referendum on the Maastricht Treaty, in 1992 – were the Danish people again confronted with “project fear”?

    Broch: Yes, definitely. Economic threats played a role in that referendum again and have played a role every time we have voted on EU questions. But they also warned, we would lose influence. That no one will listen to us, internationally, if we did not stay in the core of the EU. But, in 1992, Danes probably felt that the lies and threats were too much. Because a former prime minister had said in the referendum on the single market in 1986 that “the union is stone dead” and that people could vote “yes” to the single market without getting a union later. So many Danes felt that they had been betrayed and if the union is supposed to be “dead,” why are we voting to turn the EEC into a union.

    gfp.com: What happened after the Danish “no” in 1992?

    Broch: After the “no” in 1992, Denmark won the European Football Championship. (Laughs.) Well, politically, we obtained four EU opt-outs: 1) no to the euro currency, 2) no to the EU’s defense policy, 3) no to the EU’s supranational judicial policy and 4) no to EU citizenship. A new referendum confirmed that Denmark had won these opt-outs as a elements of Denmark’s EU relationship.

    gfp.com: There was another referendum in Denmark in December last year on the Danish opt-outs. “Project fear”, third edition?

    Broch: Yes, last December we did have another referendum. But, I should mention that we also had a referendum on the euro in year 2000. And it was a pro EU campaign with all sorts of economic threats. But after voting “no” to the euro, it was obvious that the scaremongering had been false. Denmark has its own currency and is managing much better than most of the euro countries, including Germany. So I think many Danes are not buying that scaremongering any more. And when they tried with “project fear” in last year’s December referendum on the EU’s supranational judicial policy, Danes again voted “no.” In spite of the pro-EU claims that Denmark would have difficulties fighting all kinds of criminality – pedophilia, drug trafficking, robberies and even terrorists – if we did not hand over our sovereignty to the EU on judicial questions. Many of the pro-EU parties waged a very shameful campaign.

    gfp.com: Having said “no” to Maastricht in three referendums – what do Danes think of the UK referendum?

    Broch: I think it is great that the British people have the chance to vote on the EU membership, but I also think that it is time to debate the EU without the scaremongering. People are not stupid, and they will not accept all kinds of nonsense. If you try to scare people with Ragnarok or World War Three, people will not buy it. I think that many ordinary British citizens will look at the reality. The EU is undermining democracy, and it does not look as if it is going to change for the better, so I think there are good chances for a British exit result. And I hope that both Denmark and the UK will leave the EU. After all both countries joined the EU at the same time, so it would make sense, if we leave together. However, we still need cooperation in Europe. I want a Europe, where people can travel, study, work, live and trade across borders but where democracy also has the best conditions. I believe that is much easier to build without being a member of the EU. Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are living alternatives to the EU. We all have good cooperation with them. And if Denmark and the UK left the EU, I am sure that the remaining EU countries would still want to cooperate and trade with us.

    http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/58948

  273. ONDON german-foreign-policy.com interviewed John Boyd on the position
    of the British left towards the EU and the so called Social Europe.
    More left wing arguments againt the EU

    John Boyd is Secretary of the Campaign against Euro-federalism (CAEF),
    an organisation oriented towards the labour movement and trade union
    movement which has been calling for a withdrawal from the EU since it
    was founded in 1991.

    more
    http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/58950

  279. Did I point out the fund set up in the name of Jo Cox is funding Hope Not Hate,lead by Nick Lowes;which they say was one of her favourite groups? The politics of this woman were not at all nice.She was no friend of the British working class:(workers by hand and brain).

  280. “George Orwell’s 1984 was a warning : not an instruction manual .”

    (Source: Nope not Hate : an independent pro-UKIP site challenging Hope not Hate.)

  282. One of the last messages from Jo Cox (according to the Daily Mail) was to the effect that `Leave` wanted to bring in more people from outside the EU so `they` could under- mine the British workers wages. This is wrong in so many ways;including that the obvious out-siders would be the relatives of her constituents.

    Her husband ( 90 minutes before her death ) tweeted the word `Vile ` to the latest UKIP poster of the Asiatic Horde marching across Europe.

    For that matter Michael Gove said he `shuddered ` when he saw it : obviously not in horror of what was coming our way.

  284. Malfleur at 01-42

    Did I say above (?) ;or elsewhere:
    These are tens of thousand strong,healthy young men,in trainers and with smart-phones,marching on Europe.They are not refugees.Why have they abandoned their mothers and sisters? If they are from Iraq or Syria why have they not joined the Iraqi Army or the Democratic Syrian Forces?. Did thousands of young British men flee the country in 1940 for South America?
    These men all come from countries that have long ago been rendered Juden Frie.

    Michael Gove said he `shuddered` when he saw the poster. Not ,I think,in the same way as the young women of Germany when they see what is coming their way.Every small town in Germany has now been turned into a little Rotherham.

    On that count:did Jo Cox ever speak out against the White Slave-Trade ; to give it it’s proper name?

  285. 21.26
    S.O.M.
    As you will no doubt have discovered, it only blocks the poster from you

  286. Sayeeda Warsi, the former chair of the Conservative Party, has announced she would no longer support the campaign to leave the European Union, accusing it of “hate and xenophobia”, days before the referendum.

    Warsi, told The Times newspaper she had decided to “leave Leave” because of a poster launched ahead of Thursday’s vote.

    The poster, an image of migrants and refugees queueing on the border of Slovenia with the caption “Breaking point”, was unveiled by Nigel Farage last week.

    “That ‘breaking point’ poster really was – for me – the breaking point to say, ‘I can’t go on supporting this’,” Warsi told The Times.

    “Are we prepared to tell lies, to spread hate and xenophobia just to win a campaign? For me that’s a step too far.”

  287. “Are we prepared to tell lies, to spread hate and xenophobia just to win a campaign? For me that’s a step too far.”
    *
    I think we must begin to contemplate the future of Pretty Patel, Boris Johnson and the hated ugly Gove

  288. telemachus June 20th, 2016 – 05:06

    Yes, that is the whole point. I don’t have to see your crap. You are not popular on the sites you troll in your various disguises and eventually everyone will do it.

    What is S.O.M? Another label?

  289. telemachus June 20th, 2016 – 06:45

    There’s that “we” again.

    Demented. And ironically you are prepared, it seems, to “tell lies, to spread hate” when it comes to Mr Gove.

    Hypocrite.

  290. telemachus June 20th, 2016 – 06:42

    “The Times have watered down their mischievous first edition claiming Sayeeda Warsi has ‘defected’ from Leave to Remain. No one in Vote Leave thought she was a Brexit supporter or is aware of her doing any campaigning for them at all. She has only tweeted about Vote Leave once – ten days ago – to attack them. She did not appear on the website of pro-Leave group Muslims for Britain. In February Warsi told Eurosceptic campaigners she had not declared. When Dan Hannan invited her to join the Leave campaign, she declined. Neil Kinnock even once backed her for EU commissioner…”

  291. The objection to UKIP’s poster is illogical. Even the EU talk of a “migrant crisis” engulfing Europe. A crisis reaches breaking point.

    The outrage is faux and comes mainly from genocidal idiots who hate their own country and want it to become a free for all for the whole world, focussing their hatred for any who object on UKIP. That can’t go on without reaching a breaking point.

    UKIP has become a hate target for hate groups like Hope Not Hate and the UAF. Most of the trolls attacking right wing sites are from those hate groups. Their trolls obsess about UKIP and presume everyone who comments at those sites is a UKIPer. The trolling is often ageist. Those two hate groups seem to really hate older people.

  292. What was that S.O.M again telemachus?

    Is the “caring” “compassionate” Stalin Boy ageist? Surely not!

  293. This, from the other place, is solid telemachean gold:-

    “The problem with retired senior military men – and I know well with a few such retired in the family – is that although they have lived for queen and country they despise the public and politicians
    They turn to drink
    And gutter causes like Faragism
    The Millwall types look up to them
    And you have a recipe for a right wing coup”

    Hilarious doesn’t even begin to describe it.

  294. Farage to Robinson: Today just now
    Quality of life (reducing immigrants) is more important than economic wellbeing
    Brexit means tariffs with Europe
    Brexit means adherence to the same regulations if we want to trade with EU
    *
    But we “must take control of our lives”
    *
    I feel pretty much in control of mine

  295. 7.57
    Your reposting ignores the context of the debate and is driven by

    Scorn. Odium. Malevolence.

  296. Why is UKIP the only party that is warning of the existential threat to Europe from uncontrolled mass migration?

    Daniel Johnson, the editor of Standpoint summarised the demographic problem and arising issues brilliantly in last month’s Standpoint.

    “…the worst-case scenario is that one African state after another will collapse under the weight of demographic pressures, mass unemployment, climate change and civil strife, creating a human tragedy on an enormous scale. Even under the best-case scenario, the migratory wave towards Europe is likely to dwarf anything seen from the Middle East. African and Arab nationalism have failed to produce a better life for their supporters, but in an increasingly globalised world people can easily see the better life available elsewhere and are far more likely to move in order to get it. For most of recorded history Europe was able to regard what happened in Africa with some detachment. That detachment, already under strain, will soon vanish altogether.”
    http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/6480/full

  297. Tetley’s vile postings are indeed driven by scorn, odium and the malevolence of the left towards all that reject their failed, totalitarian, one world agenda.

  298. Here is a realistic assessment of Jo Cox, Labour functionary. Another parachuted feminist activist parachuted into a solid labour constituency who chose to ignore the the monstrous muslim rape gangs in her own backyard to progress the causes of the left.
    It is fascinating to watch the transformation of an ambitious, self seeking Labour MP into the Herbert Norkus of the political class.

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/06/the-selective-compassion-of-jo-cox/

  300. telemachus June 20th, 2016 – 08:29

    No, it’s driven by the hilarity of the rubbish you post. No context is needed for that quote because it is entirely revealing of the strangeness inside your head. It is stand alone evidence of your derangement.

    Even if we were to believe your latest Mittyism that you have a “few” retired senior military men in your family who are all alcoholic and hate both the public and politicians no sane person would ever believe that UKIP consists only of alcoholic retired colonels and Milwall supporters or that such a gathering could conduct a right wing coup. That is pure comedy gold.

    You project your own prejudice and hate (as you do for the Home Counties/East Anglia) and it is ridiculous, especially when you spend so much time bleating about how caring and holier than others you are.

    When you repeatedly shoot yourself in the foot, telemachus, don’t complain when others point out that it is bleeding!

    And you bring malevolence and subterfuge wherever you go, so don’t expect anyone to contemplate you with warm affection.

  303. I think the “Millwall supporters” reference is the result of the lingering resentment born of old wounds inflicted upon the twat by Rod Liddle.

  304. EC 09.48

    And the twat’s various snide references to ‘alcoholic retired colonels’ is due to a pathologic hated of patriots who have put their ideals and bodies in defence of their nation, who have earned the right to speak their views are entitled to spend their pensions in any damn way they please without criticism by spying totalitarion thugs.

    Oh, and the fact that his routine demolition here and elsewhere by an erudite and implacable opponent has inflicted more scars and self doubt than Rod Liddle ever could.

  305. 0931 You can do hominem well

    The crazy wind up post which you reproduce at 0757 was – As You Very Well Know -at the end of a string of increasingly inflammatory posts from your First Lieutenant and immediately preceded by the provocative:

    “One socialist shudderer is an ordinary mans’ secret policeman.
    You Labour socialists are really very, very creepy, taking names for a future round up are you?”

  306. telemachus June 20th, 2016 – 10:43

    I don’t have a First Lieutenant. I’m British. First Lieutenant is an American rank.

    All your comments are crazy wind up posts – As You Very Well Know.

  308. teletwat

    I see my comment about totalitarin spies struck home.
    You don’t like the truth being turned back on you, do you?

  309. Colonel Mustard

    Unfortunately all your excellent rebuttals of our resident troll’s agitprop efforts are wasted on a sad case of Irreversible Sixties Syndrome; as opposed to Temporary Sixties Syndrome, a more common affliction which most young people with more than three joined-up synapses managed to shake off, once they had passed through a protracted period of retarded adolescence.

    ISS is a chronic form of masochism; sufferers of this mental disorder volunteer for – and even enjoy – the polemical drubbings over and again.

    Now, much as I enjoy the historical relevance and logic of your attempts to cure this particular victim of his malady, I fear that continuance of it may lead to a sado-masochistic relationship that could lead to voyeurism on the part of other Wallsters. I am already beginning to feel slightly uneasy myself at this daily scourging.

    I therefore ask Peter from Maidstone once again, to prevent this sad case from self harm, by debarring him at least from this arena of opportunity, as an act of kindness. The Colonel’s cat o’ ninetails is beginning to leave what may well be permanent scarring, which amounts to GBH (a victim’s willing participation in such acts does not, I believe, exonerate the perpetrator and the the argument of ‘self-defence’ would only be valid if the voluntary victim had the means to cause the perpetrator damage – which he clearly does not in this case).

    Further evidence of his mental disorder in contained in the post of 10:43: the capitalisation of the phrase ‘As You Very Well Know’. He is clearly becoming quite unhinged. From this day on I shall have to avert my eyes if Peter declines this serious request and allows the cruelty to continue.

  313. EC/Noa/Colonel

    Implicit in my 11 45 was of course a tongue in the cheek. there doesn’t seem to be an emoticon icon to cover that.

  315. Why has Jo Cox, who sounds as if she was a very left-wing, run of the mill Labour MP, suddenly become Saint Jo? Yes, her death was a tragedy for her family, we all agree, but why the elevation to a combination of Mother Teresa and “The People’s Perfect Politician”? I’m convinced that if only the referendum has been held one week earlier, Leave would have won. Now, because of the “sympathy” vote from weaklings who don’t know the difference between one tragic death and the future of Britain, it looks as if the maniacs will win.

  316. Noa (15:41)

    The bastard’s got a left hand thread so, barring an exorcism by our host, the Colonel’s hammer is the best solution!

  317. Brendan ONiell on the hatred of the Remainers. This comrade writes truthfully, unlike some we know:

    “…And then there’s the white working classes, such a terrible disappointment to the well-to-do leftists of the Remain side. Surveys consistently show that around 60 percent of those in the two lower social classes want to leave the EU. Barely a day passes without an anthropological-style article in the Guardian trying to work out why these voters are so fearful and angry and emotional (they can’t possibly be rationally anti-EU). Toynbee slammed these people, with their ‘crap jobs’ and their tendency to say ‘Fuck off Europe’, and their temerity to reject the ‘facts’ of Polly and her band of ‘eager young London graduates’. Seriously, can these people hear themselves?

    This is the terrible irony of Remainers’ handwringing over the poisoning of public debate: they have played a major part in said poisoning, in stirring up prejudice against the allegedly dim, the overemotional, the confused, the old, the plebs, the howling, brainless throng. How can they pontificate about hatred while communicating some pretty hateful views of their own? Simple: because their kind of hatred is so longstanding, so entrenched in certain political and media circles, that they don’t even think of it as hatred. It’s just reality, right, this situation where we clever people must endure the howls of those politically uninformed people? The chutzpah of it: under the guise of taking a stand against prejudice, Remainers are resuscitating one of the oldest prejudices.”

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/remain-revealed-hateful-prejudices/

  319. Frank P,

    Probably one for Stefan Molyneaux, but can one be determinedly deterministic?

  320. Frank, EC and other sensible CHW posters
    You can shoot the messenger but not the message
    *
    Arabella Arkwright, a respected Board Member of Leave:

    Tweeted an image of a white girl in the middle of a group of people wearing burqas saying: “Britain 2050: why didn’t you stop them Grandad?”

  321. A Damascus moment

    Bernard Jenkin has just said to Cathy Newman

    That Farage’s poster is racist

  322. The barbarian was attempting to publish the following (Alex Massie’s blog), was censored by the Spectator, he reckons it’s either that someone’s watching over what certain ip addresses are up to (each PC has a unique ip number), cuts the posting, or a software picks on certain words (here it may be Woolwich, Rigby, fusilier), also scraps the posting automatically. Pathetic.

    “Why is it OK to display, morn, make capital out a body of a toddler washed out on the beaches of the Med, but not to show a huge ‘tsunami’ like crowd of young men, well fed, no sign of any distress, mobiles at hand walking towards Europe, Alex?

    Why was it the murder of a soldier was a few day issue for the MSM, the murder of a Labour MP seems to hug the front pages for days? True, Rigby was just a fusilier, not an MP, but he, too, was young, had a son, (was separated from his wife), a fiancee. Wasn’t his life also cut short? Wasn’t he killed because of ‘well of hate’, something the cumryd said about the murder of Mrs. Cox?

    It’s truly disgusting what the political elite, their MSM poodles are up to, what they’ve failed to consider is the unhappiness with the EU in its present shape and form isn’t going away, if anything it will get a boost whatever the result on the 23rd”.

  323. telemachus @ 19:41

    How does he (Jenkins) know all in the picture are of the same race?

    The Tory wankers have turned on Nigel because they know many of the 4mn voters he (Nigel) pinched from them at the last election would have voted Conservatives, tele. Jenkins is a politician as tribal as any other one.

  325. telemachus @ 19:21

    If the immigration trend continues, the Muslim families keep having the same number of kids as now, the birthrate of the indigenous folk remains low, this is what the country will look like, tele. You cannot beat demographics, it’s real life, not some wishful thinking by a few anointed.

    More to the point, who wants to wear burka?

    The barbarian recalls a follower of Allah telling a cameraman ‘one day sharia will rule UK’. Where were you to object to it, or you endorse his sentiment, do you?

  326. telemachus @ 19:50

    Forget the word, tele, the barbarian doesn’t get what you mean anyway, tell him what is wrong with his posting at 19.45? Why cannot he get in displayed in a country that shouts it honours freedom of expression?

  329. Somewhat disappointing, the final England’s match in the Group, we must do better, dominating, having the largest number of passes, shots counts for nothing, it’s goals that matter, Roy should keep on stressing it. Our boys seem to be out of scoring, if they shoot at the goal, they hit either the goalkeeper, or the space around the goal, not good enough, it hurts the barbarian’s blood pressure, on one or two occasions, it looked as if the Slovaks could score themselves.

    Still, in the next stage we’re to face teams that won’t just sit back, defend, but push forward, give our boys at the front the space to score a few, one very much hopes.

  331. EC (19:20)

    To a determinist, everything is determined, including ones own determination. And, of course, the pathethic ISS of the multimonikered troll. The genes just evolved from last of the big bangs.

  332. The interesting unknowable, though, is: if the big bang was just one in an everlasting sequence, are all the events between each big bang exactly the same as the last sequence and if not, why not? Or – to put it anorher way -is the whole of existence eternal reverberation with no beginning and no end. I could settle for that and prepare for the next set of vibes. And, as ever, some of it will be enjoyable and some of it a real pisser. Like getting turped in one’s octogenarian decline. Or maybe that would be better described as a non-pisser. 🙂

  334. Frank P @ 23:40

    Could you, Frank, and EC let the barbarian in on the secret? What it’s all about, the unknowable, deterministic, big bangy stuff?

  341. BREAKING POINT
    The monarchy having decided to abandon the British people, and its own identity, by keeping schtum on the one great constitutional question since the War, we are led by a man who would put his genitals in the mouth of a dead pig to win the good opinion of his cronies.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3651434/Cameron-s-migration-deception-PM-knew-FOUR-years-ago-s-never-meet-immigration-target-inside-EU-reveals-former-closest-aide.html

  342. This is what says Soros, the man who made a killing on the implosion of our disastrous coupling with the exchange rate mechanism in 1992:

    “Brexiters seem to recognise that a sharp devaluation would be almost inevitable after Brexit, but argue that this would be healthy, despite the big losses of purchasing power for British households. In 1992 the devaluation actually proved very helpful to the British economy, and subsequently I was even praised for my role in helping to bring it about”.

    Whoever praised him must have been as mad as a dozen of hatters combined multiplied by the madness of his own ego. In 1992, he made a billion, twenty million or so of British households lost purchasing power, and he has the gall to lecture us now how to vote. Beggars belief, the sickening narcissism of some people.

  343. Frank P @ 00:37

    Having asked you the question, Frank, the barbarian waited few minutes, then switched the contraption off thinking you did the same, missed your undeniably unhelpful postings that followed.

    The Stefan’s story may be either an oversight that happens (all the agencies must be getting thousands calls about suspicious individuals, packages, cats and whatever, how does one decide?). Or it may be a system failure. A friend of Baron, a former soldier, is worried the US military, the command structure, have become totally bogged down by layers of bureaucracy, so much so that in the event of a conflict flaring up the fighting units may easily fight each other. The example he cites is the event of 9/11 when the interceptor planes got directed in the opposite direction from the hijacked airline (or something like that, he knows the details, coordinates, hard to remember any of it).

    It seems the security set-up is similarly infected.

  344. Malfleur @ 02:58

    What’s new on the story, Malfleur? A politician has lied for four years? Well, that’s a revelation.

  345. Malfleur @ 01:50

    If Baron decides to get bored to death, this may be one of the videos he’ll go for, thanks, Malfleur. A couple of cadavers immersed in liquid hydrogen for years exhibit more signs of life than these two guys, being told by any one of them about a paint drying would be just about the pinnacle of boredom. The barbarian could stand it up their little disagreement about Greece, no more.

    What new info have this Roberts’s spiel revealed? He says it’s CIA that set up the European integration project. Where does it leave Monnet, Schuman and co?

  347. Well the lies continue. Hillary tells us that the biggest atrocity since 9/11 in Orlando was a one off and reflects that we are not yet comfortable with gays.
    Of course we are not comfortable with gays, nor bathroom changing trannies.
    But for Gods sake the gunman was Omar Mateen, an Afghan.
    So Donald was correct. Muslim Commie Obama wants us once again to give up our protective guns. I tell yall that if there had been a decent show of guns on the belts at the Pulse Club, this muzzie would have been felled after his first shot.
    What better evidence of the need for Donald at the helm. Hillary will let the muzzies and dagos keep flooding in and take our guns that protect us from them.
    Love to Andy. Is he dead?

  348. You Limeys sure storing trouble for next January when Donald enters the Oval Office.
    After your plebiscite to exclude the great man you send shootist Michael Steven Sandford over to try to finish him off. Slim chance. We are made of stronger fiber.
    More love to Andy.

  349. John birch @ 08:00

    He’s good, he always is, John, but he finished where he should have begun. What he said we already knew, it’s the solution that eludes everyone, how does one square a circle, because that’s what it is, how do we reconcile two needs sitting diametrally of each other: our ‘uman rites’ obligations with the removal of illegal intruders.

    We shall see what the magicians of politics can come up with, but Baron’s money on the former, the intruders will remain, more will follow.

  350. Democrat Senator Murphy whines that the NRA has a vice-like grip on the Senate. He’d rather that the comintern had a vice-like grip on the Senate, as they do in our Parliament, full of PPE wonks, ex-social work, charity and public sector types, sundry “campaigners” and worst of all grievance peddling lawyers.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/senate-gun-votes-congress/

    Knee jerk attempts to Orlando-ise gun control fail (they would have succeeded in the Circus of Clowns that is our Parliament, with much sanctimonious and emotive preening) so expect Obama to start conniving an alternative approach to disarm white America with his communitarian comrades in the establishment.

  351. Baron @ 07:40

    I will try to find you a presentation punctuated by wrestling naked female dwarves
    in the style of the Russian Tsarist court of two or three centuries ago in the hope that your attention would be held while serious matters are discussed. The suggestion that Brexit would threaten the break-up of NATO and us thus be worth an assassination to prevent was novel to me, and gripping. Perhaps you are not used to the old slow colonial speech patters that served the Founding Fathers well enough, boring as they might have sounded to King George’s troops. The responsibility of the CIA for the EU is something you had best take up with Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, who writes for the Daily Telegraph which just came out for Brexit, as Paul Craig Roberts indicates that Pritchard produced documentary proof – though that of course may fall into the “no clear evidence” category of the Inspector Hound school of forensic science.

    In the meantime, stay away from Plato’s Republic, unless you are having one of your insomniac nights. 🙂

  352. “Who killed Cock Robin?” “I,” said the Sparrow,
    “With my bow and arrow, I killed Cock Robin.”
    “Who saw him die?” “I,” said the Fly,
    “With my little eye, I saw him die.”
    “Who caught his blood?” “I,” said the Fish,
    “With my little dish, I caught his blood.”
    “Who’ll make the shroud?” “I,” said the Beetle,
    “With my thread and needle, I’ll make the shroud.”
    “Who’ll dig his grave?” “I,” said the Owl,
    “With my pick and shovel, I’ll dig his grave.”
    “Who’ll be the parson?” “I,” said the Rook,
    “With my little book, I’ll be the parson.”
    “Who’ll be the clerk?” “I,” said the Lark,
    “If it’s not in the dark, I’ll be the clerk.”
    “Who’ll carry the link?” “I,” said the Linnet,
    “I’ll fetch it in a minute, I’ll carry the link.”
    “Who’ll be chief mourner?” “I,” said the Dove,
    “I mourn for my love, I’ll be chief mourner.”
    “Who’ll carry the coffin?” “I,” said the Kite,
    “If it’s not through the night, I’ll carry the coffin.”
    “Who’ll bear the pall? “We,” said the Wren,
    “Both the cock and the hen, we’ll bear the pall.”
    “Who’ll sing a psalm?” “I,” said the Thrush,
    “As she sat on a bush, I’ll sing a psalm.”
    “Who’ll toll the bell?” “I,” said the bull,
    “Because I can pull, I’ll toll the bell.”
    All the birds of the air fell a-sighing and a-sobbing,
    When they heard the bell toll for poor Cock Robin.

  353. Malfleur @ 13:05

    A deal, Malfleur, but avoid going to that length to please the blue veined barbarian, an average height, not too advanced in age, scantily dressed half a dozen females will do, they don’t have to battle each other either, just lounging about suggestively will be fine, keep in mind, the heart of the viewer ain’t what … (nuff of this nonsense).

    The posting was meant in jest, an attempt at witticism, a poor one, too, because the barbarian likes Robert’s writing, too much in favour of the man in Kremlin, but all in all OK.

    The idea of a united Europe as a barrier to the warring spirit of one its tribes goes back to the 30s (it probably occurred before e.g. the Romans), it may happen in the future, but if it does come about it will be because the European unwashed will feel a need for it, not because the anointed dream it.

    The suggestion that NATO may be threatened as a possible outcome of brexit is neither new nor real, it depends on what the Americans decide. Have a look at the attached. (Have you come across it before?).

    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-183232

  355. Colonel Mustard @ 09:28

    The sale of guns must have got a boost again, Colonel. The anointed never learn, do they.

  356. Jo Cox was killed because of her strong political views, her widower Brendan has told the BBC.

    The late Labour MP would want people to stand up for her beliefs “in death as much as she did in life”, he told political editor Laura Kuenssberg.
    He said his late wife, who would have been 42 tomorrow, was concerned about “coarsening” of the referendum debate.

    He also spoke about the need to support their children to “make sure something good comes out of this”.

    Mr Cox said that his late wife – who was a passionate campaigner for human rights, international development and the plight of refugees during her parliamentary career and in her previous role working for Oxfam – “died for her views”.

    “She was a politician and she had very strong political views and I believe was she killed because of those views,” he said. “I think she died because of them and she would want to stand up for those in death as much as she did in life.

    “I don’t want people ascribing views to her that she didn’t have but I certainly want to continue to fight for the legacy and for the politics and the views she espoused.

    “Because they were what she was, she died for them and we definitely want to make sure that we continue to fight for them. “

  357. Poor Nigel
    *
    Nigel Farage has acknowledged that the drive to win over waverers may have been hit by Mrs Cox’s death.

    “We did have momentum until this terrible tragedy,” he told Peston on Sunday. “It has had an impact on the whole campaign for everybody.

    “When you are taking on the establishment, you need to have momentum. I don’t know what’s going to happen over the course of the next three to four days”
    *
    telemachus can tell him

  358. Teleslime.

    Fuck off you bloodsucking leech. She died because a nutter decided that he wanted to kill her – he saw her and her cause as a threat to this country. His action was extreme, illegal and morally wrong, but his complaint was valid. I had seen no commensurate concern from her, her husband, nor any other alleged bien pensants from the parasitical left in general when Islamic barbarians have slaughtered innocents in the hundreds of thousands in recent years and continue to do so on a daily basis. What socialism has perpetrated during many recent decades is a scourge on humanity. She and her ilk have diverted funds that could have been put to good use among the needy of this country to people who hate and despise us. All public service involves some risk. During my working life I faced that risk willingly every day. So did all my colleagues. Occasionally one or more paid the price. Jumping on bandwagons when the bandwagon is a hearse is as obnoxious as it gets. The British people have a chance to escape from the Franco-German racket of long standing and gigantic proportions this Thursday. If they don’t take it they desrve anything that transpires.

    To try to garner vicarious kudos for your lost and murderous cause from this incident is about as egregious as you can get. Crawl back uder your stone with Tariq and the other creepy crawlies. What an arsehole!

    Peter – thank you for the facility over the past few years. I no longer wish to share space with this example of multimonikered pond life. I shall miss the good company here but the stench of several million corpses hangs around that despicable cunt. It’s no longer dog shit, it’s foul corruption and if you want to harbour him, good luck to you.

    Cameron and his cabal also have a lot to answer for. His comeuppance is nigh.

  359. My last communique here – BREXIT and BUGGER BRUSSELS.
    The biggest bunch of con men on the planet and the Westminster wankers come a close second.

    I depart to the sound of a million patriots turning in their graves. It would appear that a large segment of my fellow subjects are selfish cowards and unworthy of past sacrifices. I hope they emerge as a minority on Thursday.

  360. Thank you Frank
    I will keep silence to allow the others the benefit of your wisdom

  362. Peter

    It looks as though Tele will have achieved his primary aim in posting here as Wallsters leave.
    Obviously you have other responsibilities and commitments which must take priority over what is essentially a labour of love and it will be a shame to lose this conservative forum.
    At what point will this decline persuade you close the Wall?

  363. Frank P June 21st, 2016 – 19:16

    It will be an honour to join you in your departure, sir.

    17:41 and 17:45 astonishing. Commentary is one thing. Deliberate provocation is another thing entirely.

    I have no idea why, of all people, telemachus, the very antithesis of conservatism, is accommodated here, of all places. If he simply offered a counter view or properly engaged and argued his case in a civil manner it might be tolerable. But he just heckles from the back of the hall, dropping in whenever he likes to work his particular style of mischief.

    He hates us and everything we represent. His presence here involves subterfuge, posting under bogus names, slyly intimating the fruits of his stalking activities when he refers to our personal characteristics and even places of residence, as has been revealed again and again. So why on earth is he tolerated here? Why has he, our enemy, been given this power?

    You insist on having the repulsive creature here, fine. But I’m joining Frank.

  364. Noa – 20:33

    I’ve been on the road for the last 6 days. I’ve looked in occasionally, and it’s been apparent that Senor Slime has been oozing on overdrive in the run up to the 23rd.

    I think that Peter’s vision for the CHW is slightly different from some of the rest of us. I think that we may have to reconvene elsewhere.

    Tolerance: I have pointed out before that there is a distinction to be made between ‘turning the other cheek’ and ‘assuming the position and spreading both cheeks.’

    I agree with Frank P’s summation @19:16 100%

  367. THE HEART AND STOMACH OF A MAN – QUEEN ELIZABETY PICKS UP THE FLAG AS HER COLONEL DESERTS THE FIELD – BREXIT!

    The Wall’s leading posters violate the basic rules of battle and of blogging. They fed the troll, who has dragged his stinking herring across the Wall’s narrative, and at a critical moment in this damn close run thing and on the very eve of the referendum no less, allowed themselves to be driven from the field.

    They wavered, broke, and ran.

    QUEEN ELICABETH has picked up the flag that these men let drop in this tiny corner of the battleground.She has drawn on her sense of duty and of history to signal unmistakably that the monarch and the monarchy support the Leave vote:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/queen-asks-guests-to-give-her-3-reasons-why-britain-should-remai/

    For those with ears to hear. Her Majesty can be heard in this article to say to us:

    “My loving people

    We have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit our selves to armed multitudes, for fear of treachery; but I assure you I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people. Let tyrants fear. I have always so behaved myself that, under God, I have placed my chiefest strength and safeguard in the loyal hearts and good-will of my subjects; and therefore I am come amongst you, as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved, in the midst and heat of the battle, to live and die amongst you all; to lay down for my God, and for my kingdom, and my people, my honour and my blood, even in the dust.

    I know I have the body of a weak, feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too!”

    GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
    Confound their politics
    Frustrate their knavish tricks
    BREXIT!

  368. Whilst I have defended the right to free speech for teletubby before, I think I must now fall into Frank P’s camp.

    He has always posted bollox, but now it is unadulterated bollox with only the sole aim of aggravating all other posters.

    Be done with him Peter before the site becomes the desert he no doubt wishes to create.

  369. Out of interest :

    Batley and Spen constituency ;

    Jo Cox 21,826…..43.2%
    Con……15,769…..31.2%
    UKIP……9,080……18.0%

    Turn out 64%

  370. I hope that I am not too late to appeal to Frank P, the Colonel, Clear Memories and EC to reconsider their decisions. I really enjoy reading and learning from your posts. I ignore everything written by the pest and never bother to reply to it. I went through a Marxist phase in my youth, but I soon came to realise that the whole theory of ideology was intrinsically evil. Unlike the pest, I matured and grew up. Again, I request you to reconsider your decisions and to just ignore the drivel. One of the tactics of the left is to bore their opponents into leaving meetings so that the extremist minority remaining pass ridiculous and unpopular motions. Please don’t give into these juvenile tactics and give the nuisance the result that it wants.

  372. Malfleur – 02:01

    Meanwhile, in the real world, some of us are looking forward to actually voting tomorrow.

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