The Coffee House Wall – 20th/26th May

Posted on May 20, 2013

This is the Coffee House Wall for this week. I won’t say that it is your chance to communicate with us, as we are all in this together. It is, nevertheless, the Conservative Blog post that has no particular theme, and where everything is on topic. Let’s just remember that we want to avoid ad hominem attacks on others. We don’t want to engage with trolls. We want to moderate our language ourselves as responsible and mature adults, choosing to use fruity language only where it is necessary. This is our opportunity to show what the Spectator Coffee House Wall could have been like.

Please consider supporting the Coffee House Wall by making a donation, of whatever amount, to fund the running of the site using the Paypal donation button provided.


 

412 thoughts on “The Coffee House Wall – 20th/26th May”

  1. Frank P, May 19th, 2013 – 12:18

    The BBC, through the medium of the midday news bulletin, just managed to propagate from the seed of a demented rant by the semi-senile old fart Howe, a conflation of pro-Eurofederalist and pro-sodomist bilge that once again illustrates just how organised are Gramsci’s disciples. They never sleep!

    They were still repeating the the bilge at 10pm!

    I don’t think that Howe ever got over Margaret’s summation of his resignation speech, in which he intended to knife her in the back. In response she dismissed his remarks as, “like having been savaged by a dead sheep.” Bwahahahaha – what a woman! Of, course “they” got her in the end. Traitors, the lot of them!

    Speaking of traitors, thanks for the link to Littlejohn’s exposé of the truth of Neathergate affair.

  3. All sing to the tune of “Today is Flora’s holiday”…. “Today is Pooftah’s voting day….”

  8. Thought for the day.

    “Don’t die a virgin – there’s an ever-increasing number of Muslims waiting for you”

    And EC 11:20 – One assumes the chewing gum is to stop up the keyhole to maintain a little privacy!

  9. I see your PM(who has a delightful wife) benefitted from a leg up last week from Obama. They are good liberal soulmates.
    Makes up for the leg up Blair(who has the equally delightful Cherie) gave Bush.
    Problem is it looks as though both leg ups will have similar disastrous consequences.

  10. It seems that BP is in difficulties over false claims regarding the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The company is being used as a cash cow by unscrupulous Americans aided and abetted by biased judges. Since the beginning, this country has been targeted by the Obama Administration with bile and malice, while all the time British forces were, and still are spilling their blood in defence of American interests. BP has asked the Government to intervene, the result? silence. Of course there is silence, creepy Cameron is intent on protecting his pension, just like his hero Blaire did, and sod British interests. To add insult to injury, the ghastly O has indicated that he wishes us to remain in the EU, now mw, O would have told the impertinent son of a bitch to eff off and mind his own business, but we can be certain worshiping Dave did not do that.

  11. Cigar chompin’ John Jefferson ‘Walkin’ Disaster’ Burns XIV (yessiree)

    WTF are you still doing showing your face around here, you cigar-chompin’ septic waste of oxygen?

    Your opinions have all the maturity of your bankrupt joke of a c*ntry and all the depth of a car park puddle.

    Piss off out of it, you clown.

  12. EC – the Dead Sheep quip is widely attributed to Dennis Healey, though a quick Google suggests it didn’t originate with him, But did Maggie ever say it?

  13. EC (08:24)

    … and on the Daily Politics show today: three pro-sodomists (four if you count the horse-faced bird that fronts it when Brillo is indulging himself elsewhere) ‘debated’ the ‘gay marriage’ vote in parliament later today. Of course the frumpy, fey little turd-burglar Nick Herbert was one of ’em; he asserted that a vast majority of the ‘younger generation’ supported sodomy (or mutual cunnilingus) as a life style and that we therefore had to pay attention to their wishes, as ‘they are ‘the future’ (indeed, it seems they are).

    The implication being, of course, the ‘enlightenment’ – over fifty years or so, of successive generations of schoolchildren; rather than the reality: their brainwashing determined leftist-controlled education and criminal justice systems carrying out Gramsci’s game plan and propaganda to destroy the family as the building block of society by destroying sexual mores and sodomising a nation in the process (and that being just two components of a multi-faceted conspiracy).

    And we think Nigel Farage is going to rescue us by strutting around the UK with his maniacal ‘matey’ grin, swilling his ubiquitous pint and puffing his Park Drive snout (or whatever) in an attempt to ingratiate himself with the ‘deprived’ underclass?

    Cut the crap, Nigel; let’s have more of the anger and gravitas. If you don’t – There. Is. No.Hope. For. This. Nation!

    Or, I fear, for what’s left of Western Civilisation.

    And if that little cameo doesn’t convince you, then read this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326870/Stuart-Hazell-Tia-Sharp-murderers-self-pitying-letters-jail-reveal-upset-nasty-stuff-said-prisoners.html

    bearing in mind that this brainless, disgusting, depraved monster managed to conceal, for a week or so, the evidence of his heinous crime in a small terraced shit-hole in which he had successively rogered three generations of the same family (one of whom he murdered in the process); allegedly searched twice during that period by the combined forces of law ‘n’ order and not discovered until the third attempt, when stench from the mouldering body would have alerted even a blind Old Bill and forced them to acknowledge its existence (or perhaps I should say its presence).

    Tell me it ain’t so … FFS – please tell me , in my senile dotage, that I am just having harmless delusions and that soon, with a little medication, the delusions will pass and reality will resume.

  14. Extraordinary isn’t it that journalists scream about any perceived threat to press freedom (though none speak out against their self-imposed censorship via the NUJ), but almost none of them use their freedom to any noticeably good purpose.

    Countless of them spew forth in their opinion columns on SSM but none, no not one, has actually nipped over to Spain say, to see what are the real effects to individuals and society of its imposition. Well, bearing in mind that the first-step in every path of The Long March is an insertion of the thin edge of the wedge, and remembering for instance that with the abolition of Capital Punishment, we were assured that a Life sentence would be for life, or that with the introduction of legal abortion, that it would never be abortion on demand, and I’m guessing that anyone who suggested that viable living screaming babies would be murdered by doctors on their delivery would have been described in terms far worse than loonies, so let’s look ahead a year or two down the road after the introduction of SSM.
    How quickly would a case be taken, maliciously I’ve no doubt, to the ECHR concerning the “inequality” of SSM not being allowed in Churches (and I’m guessing that no such case will ever be taken against a mosque)? And how quickly would this “inequality be overturned in Parliament?
    How quickly will the terms Mother and Father be banned from any document including birth-certificates? And how quickly after this will schoolchildren be banned for the discriminatory and excluding use of these terms at school, the sanction being having their names added to the register of hate-crimes? (There are apparently already 120,000 children under the age of 12 on such a register.)
    The journos love to interview Peter Tatchell on the subject of SSM but none question his recorded opinions on the joys of sex with children, and as yet he has not been inconvenienced with a dawn raid by the Plod. And so the incremental, perpetual revolution goes on and on, and all funded compulsorily whether you like it or not.

  15. IRISHBOY@May 20th, 2013 – 15:34

    Care to enlighten us as to what SSM is. Perhaps a link to an article describing it?

  16. Sorry Alexsandr, it’s the abbreviation being used for Same-Sex Marriage!

  18. Frank Sutton @15:19

    You are quite correct. A memorable quote, but unfortunate for Healey in that with the passing of time his wittiest ever “killer” quote is now attributed by many to Margaret.
    🙂

  19. Frank P @ 15:21

    Having read Razor Smith’s memoirs about prison life a few years back, I’d say that the prognosis for that convicted child murderer is not good. He’s on borrowed time. I don’t think that Santa Claus will be paying him many more visits, if at all.

  20. Noa May 19th, 2013 – 19:44 ‘Godfrey Bloom swatting flies’

    Thanks for the link!

    Gavin Esler setting up his tee shot:
    Godfrey Bloom is UKIP’s economy spokesman and has known Nigel Farage for many years [so we can ask impertinent questions later].

    Godfrey Bloom blowing away the dross:
    How ridiculous is it to argue that you want independence and still remain part of the Brisssels empire, ludicrous!

    But just like the Irish!

  21. RobertC – “But just like the Irish!”

    And I note they had no problem accepting British bail-out money – £5BILLION!!!

    And I have just heard this very minute on Radio 4’s PM programme a Tory saying that “why the Prime Minister is ramming this bill through, nobody has yet got to the bottom of.”!!!! Ho Ho!

  22. stephen maybery – 13:27 ‘BP and USA understanding’

    There is another UK/USA conflict rumbling along.

    About 13 years ago Vodafone, or rather Chris Gent, went and purchased two US mobile phone companies and was beaten to a third by what we now call Verizon Communications.

    They agreed to merge all three mobile phone companies into what we now call Verizon Wireless (VW), with Vodafone holding a 45% stake and Verizon the rest. This meant that Verizon had control and that the Vodafone logo was not used.

    My view is that the relationship was civil but reports at the time did indicate that Verizon was not as cooperative or understanding as it might have been over some matters such as technological decisions. It has also, unilaterally, withheld dividends for several years, which had the effect of increasing the value of VW and meant that the Vodafone dividend had to be funded from the rest of Vodafone, alone. There were calls for Vodafone to sell VW because it lacked control, but it took no action, because it could see it was a good investment.

    VW has now become a money making machine and recently Verizon has been trying to force Vodafone to sell its stake, offering a derisory sum, by threatening to withhold the dividend again. Reports of aggressive statements originating from Verizon and other rumours have been rumbling on for several weeks but Verizon has not put forward any proposals, so the rumours have continued. This has increased the Vodafone share price somewhat so, if anything, it puts Vodafone in a stronger position!

    Vodafone’s preliminary results for the last financial year will be announced tomorrow (Tuesday) and it is expected/hoped that Vodafone will make a statement about the situation. The only statement they have made so far is that they did not need a VW dividend to fund their own dividend this year. It was after this announcement that Verizon announced that they would indeed offer a VW dividend.

    One of the rumours is that ATT and Verizon could bid for Vodafone, with ATT taking the non-VW part of Vodafone. If this did happen the UK would not have a UK run mobile phone network. Here is the current list:
    Vodafone – currently a UK company, not government owned
    T-Mobile – Deutche Telecom (partly owned by the German government, 32%)
    Orange – France Telecom (partly owned by the French government, nearly 27%)
    O2 – Telefonica (the Spanish government used to have a golden share)
    3 – Hutchison 3G Chinese, based in Hong Kong

    I am waiting for tomorrow to arrive to see how my Vodafone shares are going to respond to any announcements and whither Vodafone.

  23. EC
    May 20th, 2013 – 11:20
    What’s the connection between a packet of chewing gum, a £7 tub of vaseline and two bottles of chilli sauce? The FO!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394383/Whitehall-farce-police-probe-chewing-gum-theft.html
    I guess that, in an international crisis, the chilli sauce is consumed to remind them what their arses are really for. Buggered if know what they use the chewing gum for. Anybody?
    PERHAPS IT’S BUBBLE GUM?

  25. EC (15:58)

    18th June 1978: the old rogue probably plagiarised it from Oscar Wilde commenting upon one of the less satisfactory assignations of his promiscuous career in the sodomy stakes.

    And while we’re reflecting upon the whingeing words of two infamous jailbirds, let’s take another look at this:

    http://www.famousliteraryworks.com/wilde_the_ballad_of_reading_goal.htm

    Appropriate reading matter for Mr Hazell? I note that Oscar didn’t complain of any unwelcome attention in the showers in his protracted philosophical whine. But then, I suppose they didn’t have such luxuries in those days before TV and Section 47.

  26. The astonishing thing abt the Whitehall ‘thefts’ farce is the fact that PC Pleb bothered to investigate at all. Still, I hope the victims were offered counseling – the loss of that bumper jar of vaseline must have left someone feeling a bit raw.

  27. Has anybody else noticed the horrible new photo of Cameron the BBC shows at the start of the TV News about Poofta Marriage ? His eyes have suitcases under them and his mouth is even smaller than usual. Seems he is now showing his true nature. Bet there is a giant jar of vaseline on his beside table.

  28. Two gay blokes are served a pot of tea for two in their honeymoon hotel. “Shall I be mother?” says one, reaching for the teapot. The other looks at him sadly and replies “No – neither of us will.”

  30. I just emailed my local Conservative Association and told them that I would no longer be voting for the so-called Conservative Party, and nor would my family. I have been thinking that rather than emailing MPs, who think they can ignore us, it is better to email the Associations who will understand directly that all their hard work is being undone by the Parliamentary Party and especially David Cameron.

    Others may also wish to correspond with their local Associations in a similar vein. We can compare responses.

  31. “Ground control to Major Tim.”
    I’ve just seen Paxperson making a pillock of himself questioning our (soon to be) newest astronaut. Given the explanation Tim Peake had already given, the very questions Paxman was asking made it clear that he was incapable of understanding any answer that went into any sort of detail. I’m not suggesting he should have a science degree, but before anybody is allowed into a position such as his they should have an understanding of science far greater than he clearly has. I’d love to make a snide remark about PPE degrees here, but he’s a Cambridge man.

  32. PfM 20th, – 22:30

    I’m in contact with my local Conservative association and I’m happy to continue voting Conservative, because I haven’t yet seen anything from Farage (or any of the other tossers) that convinces me he’s more than a flim-flam man. Besides, we don’t have a UKIP representative here, and our MP is sponsored by Scargill’s lot, so the Conservatives truly are “all we’ve got”.

  34. Ostrich (occasionally) @23:23

    Paxman presents University Challenge, and he has always experienced the greatest difficulty in pronouncing the terms contained in the science questions.

  35. O(o) @23.29

    Nigel Farage has done more to reform the Tory party than anyone since Mrs T.

  36. Brilliant live reportage from Fox News of the catastrophic twister that has destroyed Moore, Oklahoma.
    Shepherd Smith once again proves he’s the best in the business. Twenty four children reported killed in one school alone. A one-mile swathe of devastation. Utter chaos! And amidst the horror – human ingenuity and bravery at its best.
    But why, oh why, do people settle in ‘Hurricane Alley’?

  37. Obama will of course use the tragedy to deflect attention away from the scandals engulfing his administration.

  38. The English Defence League, apparently by popular request, has posted three articles offering a definition of basic terms of political debate.

    Politics Made Easy
    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1914-politics

    What Is The Difference Between The Far Right And Right Wing Extremism?
    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1915-what-is-the-difference-between-the-far-right-and-right-wing-extremism

    What is Extremism?
    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1916-what-is-extremism

  39. Frank P;20 May,15-21:Reality is that after generations of brain-washing school-children today use the word `gay` as slang for `BORING!!`,as in “that’s gay”:meaning it’s a pain in the ass.So much so it’s already being propaganderized against.

  40. QUOTE from Ian McKellen:The P.M. of New Zealand carelessly used the word GAY to mean weird,odd.He said,”I’m only using the word in the way my kids use it”,not understanding his responsibility as a parent would be to point-out to his kids that it’s a rather cruel use of the word.[TIME;24 Dec.2012]

  42. Well well well Andy car park.
    I come in a spirit of friendship and find ignorant cant.
    Bloggers with a dime’s worth of intelligence would recognise the analogy used.
    When US and UK top dogs commune disaster ensues.
    Blair and MI6 sent Bush hurtling into Iraq and acted as recruiting sargeant for Al Qaeda throughout the world with consequences we see monthly, the last major debacle being Boston.
    We have not yet seen the fruits of the Obama Cameron love-in but you can bet your ass that it will keep you folks pecking at the Merkel table for years to come.
    Could all be good for the yankee end however(see below).

  43. In an editorial for the Wall Street Journal, Cameron wrote that such a deal would boost Britain’s gross domestic product by as much as $15 billion and America’s by $100 billion. For Britain to enjoy the benefits of such a transatlantic pact, however, it would have to remain part of the EU.
    “I look forward to launching negotiations with the EU in the coming months,” Obama said at the White House news conference. “I believe we have a real opportunity to cut tariffs, open markets, create jobs and make all of our economies even more competitive.”
    Unusually, the Obama administration earlier this year publicly warned Britain that withdrawal from the EU would diminish its “special relationship” with the U.S., which has traditionally looked to London to help represent American interests in Continental Europe. But the president offered some backing Monday for Cameron’s approach.
    “The UK’s participation in the EU is an expression of its influence and its role in the world, as well as obviously a very important economic partnership,” Obama said. “Now ultimately, the people of the UK have to make decisions for themselves. But … David’s basic point, that you probably want to see if you can fix what’s broken in a very important relationship before you break it off, makes some sense to me.”

  44. John Jefferson Burns@May 21st, 2013 – 09:10

    Obama should keep his snout out of UK politics. If we want his advice we will ask for it.
    I think many people will think ‘The US want it, therefore it will be bad for britain’

  45. EC 20th, – 23:53

    “Paxman presents University Challenge, and he has always experienced the greatest difficulty in pronouncing the terms contained in the science questions.”

    Indeed…and he has also refused to accept science answers that are correct, except that their wording differs from the exact words on his little card.

  46. Radford NG 21st, – 05:22

    “…his responsibility as a parent would be to point-out to his kids that it’s a rather cruel use of the word.[TIME;24 Dec.2012]”

    Indeed. Why should we accept the distorting of a traditional English word for lively, bright, sportive or merry, into meaning “homo”?

  47. Radford NG – 04:38 ‘as in “that’s gay”:meaning it’s a pain in the ass’

    That’s more like it!

  48. and of course Shrewsbury town played at Gay Meadow.

    Wonder if they will call the new housing estate there Gay Meadow.

  49. Umm
    People seem to be happily quoting UKIP %age voting intentions.

    But I have just looked at UGov poll results
    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/c3o569hzch/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-200513.pdf
    No reason why UGov, just one i found at random
    Puts UKIP at 14%
    But look right and Scotland are 4%, then London 10%. Rest of the country is at least 14, and up to 17.
    They have lumped midlands and wales together. Bet midlands on its own will be much higher.
    Think we have to look at poll results are more carefully than just look at headline figures.

  50. Ostrich (occasionally)
    May 21st, 2013 – 10:05
    Gay was and still is a lovely word. The filthy pervs have highjacked it and tried to make it their own. Something queer the way the establishment has accepted this!!!!!!

  52. On the “Daily Politics” they are blabbering on about gay marriage. Just saw a lovely guy holding up a card behind the woman announcer. It warned that the Day of Judgement is Nigh. Really great. He looked sane and very sensible in contrast to the lunatic agenda this bent government stands for. By the way, all the wedding caked show to men as grooms, why no cakes with dykes? Last night saw the Scottish dykes who are ministers of their so-called church. Really an ugly lot. We have word for groups, i.e. herd pf cows, flock of sheep, so what is a group of dykes and the word for a group of pooftas?

  53. Noa@May 21st, 2013 – 12:15

    The English result puts UKIP ahead of the tories, and if you try and understand the county results in table 3, then in some places they are neck and neck. but the sample size is way too small
    More research needed I feel. We need to know what will happen in England.

  54. Andrew Mc Carthy, a veteran Mob buster, nails both Obama and Clinton to the crux of the matter of the Benghazi atrocity in an a National Review article linked by Gerard Vanderleun on American Digest (Sidelines “Fraud flows from the top down, not mid-level up”).

    (Sorry – can’t highlight the link, using my Nexus tablet – my PC has been zapped again by hackers – AD is on our blog roll).

    The picture of Clinton that McCarthy uses to top his article is as illustrative of her evil cynicism as his analysis. Great piece.

  55. At least Norm is not swivel-eyed nor, for that matter, a loon:

    Cameron ‘f****d things up’ on gay marriage, blasts Norman Tebbit as he suggests he could now be able to marry his own son

    * Former Tory chairman’s foul-mouthed attack on party leadership
    * Warns disaffected Conservatives will flock to UKIP
    * Family members should be able to marry to avoid inheritance tax, he says
    * Declares in Big Issue interview: ‘I quite fancy my brother!’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328256/Cameron-f–d-things-gay-marriage-Norman-Tebbit-blasts-suggests-able-marry-son.html

    I think “Warns disaffected Conservatives will flock to UKIP” is in weak code that should be easily decrypted by all right thinking people!

    Apart from the poor policy, it is the lack of any rigour that is so appalling. Committees and the HoL used to be able to knock bills into shape, removing many of the anomalies, but it is not to be. Discussion is a dirty word.

  56. Party Conference 2013:Cameron comes to the dais waving a piece of paper and announces;My fellow Conservatives I’ve just had this telegram from Lord Tebbit who says:”Prime Minister,you were right and I was wrong.I should apologize.Tebbit.”Amidst the applause a little man stands up and exclaims:”That is excellent news,but it needs more emphasize.Please let me read it out”.Thinks Cameron:Here is one of the grass-roots.This will make a great video-shot for `youtube`.So he makes way.The little man then reads-out:”*YOU*were right???and *I* was wrong??? *I* should apologize???Tebbit”.

  57. Sorry if the site is a bit up and down. Not much I can do as I am in London today. Its either a general internet attack on the hoster or problems with the server we share with hundreds of other websites. One day I’ll be able to afford decent and secure hosting.

  62. It gets even more surreal in the Times(£) a report from France:

    Tax on wealthy tops 100 per cent of income

    Thousands of French households have been hit by a tax bill that exceeded their total income last year.

    The revelation, in the financial daily Les Echos, will fuel claims that President Hollande has stifled the economy through his soak-the-rich agenda.

    The newspaper reported that 8,010 families paid more in taxes than they received in income because of his decision to ratchet up the French levy on wealth.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3769130.ece

  63. This from Taki:

    http://takimag.com/article/the_week_that_perished_may_20_takimag/print#ixzz2TwFaz5Gx

    commenting on the MSM’s sudden volte face as Obama turns his apparatchiks on them and their sources. Some great one-liners, worthy of Austin Barry.

    Taster:

    “Suddenly, the same mainstream press that for a half-decade had served as Barack Obama’s hagiographers, water carriers, bootlickers, lawn jockeys, shoeshine boys, livery drivers, toadies, stooges, and secret election committee…the same ones who’d dismissed all criticism of their big-eared saint as smelly hillbilly racism…the same ones who’d previously scoffed at the New Black Panthers case, Fast and Furious, and Benghazi as Republican-manufactured piffle…suddenly, it seemed as if Obama had flashed his fangs and bit them on the buttocks, leading them to act like teenage girls whose lover had cheated on them.”

    …. but please read it all.

  64. John Jefferson Burns 12:42 refers to David Cameron’s wife as “delightful”.

    I am fascinated. “Delightful” in what way. What have you spotted in her that everyone else has missed? Her claim to fame before Shamoron got bumped up to the PM slot was that she sold pnk Bibles in her shop. What a character, eh?

    Next, we were informed that she has a tatoo. Again, why is this exciting and newsworthy? Thousands of inadquate people have tattoos to try to make themselves interesting and unusual.

    Finally (to date) she did not follow centuries old British tradition and wear a hat for a church wedding. This, we were given to understand that she feared her grandeur in a hat might might overwhelm “the little people” and make them resentful.

    She clearly doesn’t know that to most British women, the word “wedding” means, “I must get a new hat! I’ll also need a new dress, but i’ll get something to match the hat. I had better start trying on new hats this morning if I am to work my way through all the hat departments and hat shops in my area.”

    So she went to the royal wedding, the only woman hatless and, probably, the only one with a tattoo on her heel.

    What, John Jefferson Burns, do you find “delightful” about the drab, attention-seeking Cameron’s wife?

  65. Alexsandr May 21st, 2013 – 15:15

    “All wankers are from Newark”

    Many but not all by any means.

  66. Seems Obama is not being allowed to use a major meteorological event as a shield to wad off his foes; they are in full cry:

    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/05/20/benghazi-and-going-the-full-nixon/

    Very interesting contribution by cfbleachers in the comments section after Roger Simon’s post:

    “cfbleachers

    If I’m taking the ink blot test, I’m not seeing spiders or butterflies. I’m seeing gargoyles and mazikin.

    As a thought exercise, let’s take the following scenarios and the options of items that each of us feels is the MOST horrifying to our sensibilities. Let’s examine Benghazi, the AP search and seizure, the assault on “those bitterly clinging to guns and Bibles”, Fast and Furious, and Obamacare.

    This is the ultimate ink blot test. You may only pick one answer as the one that MOST terrifies, horrifies and shatters your faith in your country.

    Benghazi: Which of the following do you find MOST abhorrent.

    A) The fact that both Bush 41 and Bush 43 had to explain in great detail the missions they intended, obtain consent of BOTH parties, and build a coalition of worldwide partners…and Obama has had to do absolutely no explanation for his forays into war, drone killing, invasions of sovereign nations and there is NEVER a “grim milestone” mentioned.

    B)The fact that open and notorious threats were evident for months in Benghazi, repeated pleas for protection went unheeded and aggressively ignored, and yet to this minute…there is NO CLEAR EXPLANATION as to what was so necessary to have the ambassador in Benghazi in the first place and NO INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING has been attempted to find out.

    C) That in the aftermath of the bloodbath, with bloody fingerprints scraped across the walls left behind, a scheme was hatched to alter the reports, not once…but multiple times, to deny the American people and their very incurious press, the truth about the attack. And, that the conspiracy to defraud was engaged in by the White House, Secretary of State, the CIA, FBI, and the military at every level, including the highest.

    D)That whistleblowers who knew the truth were threatened, their lawyers hamstrung, they were demoted or passed over for promotion, and their careers damaged.

    E)That Susan Rice and the entire administration…including the President, the Secretary of State and the Press Secretary openly and repeatedly lied about the source of the attack and continued to do so for weeks on end.

    F) That an arrogant and dismissive Secretary of State said, “what does it matter at this point” in the face of all of the above.

    G) That the Press Secretary continues to this day to BLAME REPUBLICANS for examining this entire scenario, because it is “nothing but political theater”.

    or

    H) That this government stormed into an American household in the middle of the night, dragged out a videographer who exercised his First Amendment rights to tell a story he believed in, the government called the media to witness him being perp walked, in order to blame him for an event that did NOT INVOLVE HIM AT ALL, …and they imprisoned him to this day. An event, which our incurious media and the “protectors of the civil rights of innocents” who were so vocal during the Bush years…have been utterly silent.

    I will be more than happy to run this ink blot test on those other topic heading as well. If…you can stand the nightmares.

    Full Nixon?

    Don’t make me laugh. Full Stalin.”

    Wonderful stuff!

  67. So Nicholson will leave the NHS. Later.

    why has he not found himself at the tradesmans entrace today with his personal stuff from his desk in a box or black bag and told to f*ck off and not come back.
    While IT quickly remove all his computer access.
    Thats what happens in the real world when you bugger things up.

  69. Early Ruminations: Neathergate – the IRS – Gerrymandering Constituencies in National and Local Elections

    The hearing being conducted in Washington DC by the Senate Finance Committee, and broadcast live by C-Span, into revelations that the IRS targeted right of centre groups has just adjourned for a short period of about fifteen minutes. The point had just been emphasized that no one could identify who had actually authorised the target list of roght of centre groups such as the Tea Party nor who had re-authorised it after it had initially been prohibited. The effect of the list however appears to have been seriously to hamper the efforts of right of centre groups to organize and develop opposition to the Obama candidacy for re-election as president in the critical state of Oklahoma.

    I could not help reflecting on the efforts by the New Labour Party largely unopposed and certainly not reversed by the Coalition, to in effect “buy” support for left of centre politicians from the massive inflow of immigrants created when the spigots of immigration were deliberately opened to achieve that end.

    As in the USA, nobody seems to know who ordered the taps to be turned on.

    Unbelievable.

    Are political parties of the left in the United Kingdom and the United States to be permitted to buy government support or to prevent free opposition and then to cover up the transaction. Is this legal in the United Kingdom? Are we going to have any kind of enquiry into Neathergate, its scope and implications and to examine what criminal acts may have been committed in its creation and implementation? The USA is at least in the midst of Senate hearings. They may go nowhere; they may overthrow a regime.

    In the United Kingdom: “Keep mum!”.

  71. Verity wrote about Samantha Cameron: She clearly doesn’t know that to most British women, the word “wedding” means, “I must get a new hat! I’ll also need a new dress, but i’ll get something to match the hat. I had better start trying on new hats this morning if I am to work my way through all the hat departments and hat shops in my area.”
    ——————————-
    But surely, Verity, the type of weddings that the Camerons usually go to, are not the usual type. Both groom and groom wear top hats and tail coats, and the other weddings they go to, the bride and bride wear butch David Crockett caps or trilbys!

  72. From the DT:

    “The Tory party is in agony, but Labour is also leeching support”

    Ban the spellchecker!!! (on mine, the error it’s picked up is the spelling of Labour, NOT the other one!)

  73. You Tube has taken to sending me clips of things it has calculated I will enjoy, presumably by monitoring past use of the site by my computer. So for instance it provided me this morning with an item on how to draw a foot, which will be helpful while I doodle through the second of President Obama’s twice yearly press conferences.

    It does pick some corkers though, such as this verbal dissection of multiculturalism by Mark Steyn in 2007. It remains, unfortunately only too relevant six years later, but like the EDL’s recent guide to the basic vocabulary of polemics, it thus remains a useful analysis of the contradictions within the concept which can be used to put progressives back in their box if accosted by them down the pub:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdEGJb5W5ks&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

  75. Alexsandr, May 21st, 2013 – 11:07

    “Think we have to look at poll results are more carefully than just look at headline figures.”

    Indeed, and we need to take a good look at the pollsters too !
    Isn’t YouGov somehow connected with “New” Labour in some unaccountable way?

    In the days when I used to waste my time watching BBC QT, I remember that Dimblebore was always fond of quoting YouGov.

  78. Anne, I have a couple of suggestions for the collective nouns for dykes and shirtlifters Not brilliant but I tried my best. Here we go. A Dam of dykes and a prepuce of poofs.

  79. Well, whadayaknow? The authorities have made a correct decision regarding immigration, the Afghan interpreters are to be admitted to the UK, just as well, by assisting us they have guaranteed their murder as soon as we leave. But is it not disgusting that this group of men are to be allowed in after much agitation when so many who hate our guts and wish us ill are waved through with a pension book and a council house. Is it any wonder that we are an international laughing stock?

  80. IMF report. Usual lefty stuff about austerity cutting off the financial life blood.

    NO, it is the banks with their increased spreads that are making borrowing inaffordable. They are dinosaurs. The future is peer to peer lending. Even the government agrees as they fund 20% if Funding circle loans, and FC has £76,844,376 of loans outstanding so not insignificant for a 4 year old business model.

  81. stephen maybery
    May 22nd, 2013 – 11:52
    Brilliant!
    Imagine the horrors of a finger in the dyke …..

  84. BBC in full lockdown news management mode regarding the Woolwich murder.

    Story so far is a white man wearing a ‘Help for Heroes’ t’ shirt near Woolwich Barracks has been attacked by two ‘blacks’ and decapitated with a machete. they then waited for armed police who have shot them.

    early days but the monotonous repetition by the Beeoids of not ‘speculating’ paradoxically and unsuprisingly gives credence to non-official reporting given their policy of dissembling and hiding inconvenient truths while they process and sanitise stuff for the public record.

    http://londonist.com/2013/05/serious-incident-reported-in-woolwich.php

  85. Of the 650 current members of parliament 59 are from Scotland below I show the share for each party and what the balance would have been had we not had the 59 from Scotland.

    Cons 305 minus 1 = 304
    Labour 257 minus 41 = 216
    LibDem 57 minus 11 = 46
    Dem Un 8 = 8
    SNP 6 minus 6 = 00
    Others 17 = 17

    Total 650 591.

    The conservatives would have a clear majority, makes you think.

  86. Frank P at 14.45

    This s seriously funny, you must be spending hours crawling through the Net.

    Btw, you haven’t dipped into the gay marriage bandwagon on the Spectator, it’s just Noa, and a rather non-committal posting by Austin, and of course Fergus. What’s keeping you, surely they don’t ban your postings wholesale, Baron gets about half of them in.

    Here’s a taster by Cameron talking on the radioo this morning: “I think we should think about it like this – there will be young boys in schools today who are gay who are worried about being bullied, who are worried what society thinks of them, who can see that the highest Parliament in the land has said their love is worth the same as anyone else’s love and we believe in equality and I think they will stand that bit taller today. I am proud of the fact that has happened.”

    The man’s lost it.

  88. More evidence of our vibrant multicultural society at woolwich.
    Lets celebrate our diversity.

  89. Twitter user Boya Dee wrote: ‘Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

    ‘Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

    ‘Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.’

    He added: ‘The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

    ‘People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we’ve had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a revolver

    ‘Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it… They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting…

    ‘Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

    ‘The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

    ‘Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off… Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

    ‘These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!’

  90. Peter, when we get a translation of what this guy said it might be quite usefull

  93. The attackers shouted “Allahu Akbar” (the Arabic expression meaning “God is Great”), according to Whitehall sources.

    That will be the Popular Quaker Liberation Front then.

  95. Here we go again, lets hear the nonsense on the way to a very distorted truth.

  97. Daily Telegraph:
    18:22 One witness, who declined to be named, tells Jasper Copping the attackers were “praying like it was a sacrifice” and “making people take videos”.

    Propaganda is an integral part of the war. I do hope those on our side, if we have any, realise this and act accordingly.

  98. AWK (22 May @14:17) –

    Yes, if we think of it as a mere suicide, it can seem somewhat pointless. But it has brought Dominique Venner’s lucid assessment of what is needed to a wider audience. So I’m repeating it here –

    “We definitely need new spectacular and symbolic gestures to jolt the sleepy minds, to shake anaesthetised consciences and wake our memories up. We are entering a time where words need to be authenticised by acts.

    “We also need to remind ourselves that as Heidigger so rightly put it, that the essence of man is in its existence and not in ‘the world beyond’. It is here and now that our destinies are being defined.

    “This is why we have to be ourselves right up to the last moment. It is by deciding ourselves, by really wanting our destiny, that we will vanquish the abyss. There is no escape from this necessity because we only have this life with which we can be entirely true to ourselves or be nothing at all.”

    Those three paragraphs are certainly a profound contrast to the BBC’s attempt to downplay the obvious fact that the Woolwich murder flows – as did the murder of Pim Fortuyn in Holland – from the presence of Islam in our country.

  99. Haven’t seen a Muslim leader telling us what a wicked act it was yet.
    The bastards can’t even pretend to say sorry can they.

  100. Baron May 22nd, 2013 – 16:54.

    “The man’s lost it.”

    To be frank; he never really had it in the first place.

  101. In Muslim lands they have been pushing Christians out for years, I think it’s time we started to think along the same lines and gave them the chance to go before things get nasty.

  102. John birch May 22nd, 2013 – 17:59

    “Muslims, the cancer of the west.”

    Like all cancers they need to be treated with high doses of radiation or else removed.

  103. So a serving British Soldier is brutally murdered in a London street, but Dave says we must carry on living our lives to show that terrorism cannot win. This is obscene.

    And once again, I say that the Prime Minister and his political colleagues should absolutely not receive any special security protection. The whole of our country should be made equally safe for everyone, in the spirit of equality, and if that security should unhappily fail, the politicians could at least serve the useful purpose of drawing fire which I imagine would concentrate their minds and perhaps even develop that missing sixth sense which only we on the Right enjoy – Seeing the Bloody Obvious.

  104. John birch, May 22nd, 2013 – 19:10

    “Haven’t seen a Muslim leader telling us what a wicked act it was yet.
    The bastards can’t even pretend to say sorry can they.”

    There are obviously limits beyond which Taqiyya will not work!
    Stand by for an avalanche of crap about the ROP and its “holy” book issuing from arseholes in the Westminster-MSM bubble.

  105. Lessons will be learned…totally unacceptable…the vast majority of…etc. bloody etc.

  106. Irishboy at 19.37:

    That would be a day when our politicians would walk about unprotected. They are surrounded by bodyguards who have exempt certificates from the Home Office, carry concealed handguns. You should get used to the idea that we are all equal, but some of us more equal than others.

    On the Woolwich terrorist attack: The boy is in Paris, but Boris was on the box just now saying that ‘it’s too early to say what has happened’ minutes after one of the guys carrying this sickening attack, hands covered in blood of the victim, was saying into the camera it was ‘an eye for an eye’, and that ‘they’ will never ‘stop attacking us’. Madness

  109. Words just fail me.

    How long did it take you to work out this was an Islamic terrorist murder?

    The clue’s in the beheading, isn’t it?

    It took me all of two seconds.

    Yet the news channels spent the first few hours of their coverage deliberately not talking about the significance of that. Or the T-shirt. Or the fact they weren’t interested in anyone else. Apart from their apprehenders.

    And only because witnesses heard them saying ‘Allahua Akbar’ are the MSM only now hinting at what this was.

    We went through it all with the Boston bombers when some ghastly Sky News creep said something along the lines of the reasons for this bombing are locked inside this suspect’s head.

    No they aren’t.

    The reasons are spelt out in The Koran, it is a manual for religious instruction that reads thus: ‘Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.’

    BBC News 24 has just had some Left-wing lecturer on called Brooke Rogers saying how important it is that the authorities are refusing to put a ‘label’ on this killing.

    Although she doesn’t want a ‘label’ put on the killing, she does want us to reach out to the community, particularly through Prevent Co-ordinators, you know, that little ruse to put even more taxpayer money in the hands of Muslims.

    She’s good at joining two and two together when it suits her is Brooke.

    And as for ‘Cobra’ getting together – spare me.

    The only appropriate part of that name is that all the people in Cobra are spineless.

    This is the British government we’re talking about.

    The world’s most infamous de facto sponsor of Islamic terror.

    We need less of them. Not more.

    Why are Miliband and Cameron flying back to the UK? This is their mess. The only thing they will do is make it worse.

    More arms will be sold to Saudi Arabian Wahhabists and more taxpayer money will be fleeced for ‘anti-terror’ campaigns that reward Muslims for, er, being Muslims.

    No wonder they think everyone should ‘surrender’ as Islam literally translates.

    Another terrorist killing means we have to roll out the red carpet for them again, just like after 7/7.

    More Muslim privileges here we come.

  110. Baron – I was a schoolboy in Belfast during the 1970’s so the equivocation of another British Government is no surprise to me, but yes I noticed too that Boris was saying that it was too early to know why this had happened, though I’m guessing that had the victim been black (is that a racist term these days?) and two murdering blood-drenched whites, weapons in hand, had been giving a political speech straight to camera, we would surely by now have heard the word RACIST a million times.

    And John Birch, I too am mad as hell.

  111. A young man walks along a street near a school filled with children. Suddenly the peaceful scene is disrupted by two muslims shrieking “Allah Oo’Achba”(G- is great)! and they attack the young man with machettes and butchers knives, behead him, then attack the body tearing it into pieces. Why was this done? Was it because the country they are in refuses to allow Sharia Law? Is it because the moslems cannot have dominance over all others? Perhaps it is because the people will not give up the autonomy of their country and become yet another barbaric moslem madhouse? Maybe the reason for the obscene murder is because one of the moslem clerics is at last going to be sent back to his homeland, Jordan, to stand trial for terrorism? Guess what the country is, where citizens are daily sacrificed to the barbarians. The land where little children have their throats cut as they sleep. No it is not Israel, it is here in London, and how long will it take for the lunatic Left to cry “Foul” that the two murderers were shot? How long before English universities will be boycotted, in academic boycotts originating in Scotland and Norway? There are many questions, and the biggest one is, “How much longer will the insane coalition allow barbaric scum who torture their own women with FGM, and walk our streets with their identities concealed, trading English girls and running vice rings, now accept that fear of terrorism is a way of life here” ? If the ordinary man and woman in the street haven’t the guts to stand up for our human rights, then we do not deserve to be treated as human.

  112. Please does anyone have the email address for Cameron and also, if possible, for May?
    I want to send them a copy of my posting. By the way, the Police in London are seeking witnesses to the shooting of the two terrorists. No doubt they want to arrange compensation, etc.!

  113. A few years ago I had just come back from the back end of turkey , and as I drove through some of the midlands mill towns. I might as well have not come home, it was like still being in the third world.
    People who don’t travel in this country have no idea just how bad things are in these areas. You are not in England any more.
    If you sit there and say its not my problem, your living in a dream world. It is your problem. It is your country. It is your life.
    You can’t ignore it or pretend much longer .
    You are going to have to have an opinion , much as you don’t want to.

  115. Time the police became cost effective.
    6 bullets, against lawyers and prison bills.

  116. John Birch – I’m wondering by what measure of threat the Met Police judged a man carrying home a chair-leg a few years ago in East London that caused them to shoot the poor guy dead?

    Anyway, there are Brits who put themselves in mortal danger in Woolwich this afternoon and I commend them in the full knowledge that I myself may not be made of the same sterling stuff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10074586/Woolwich-attack-Women-passers-by-hailed-as-heroes-for-shielding-body-of-dead-solider.html

  120. ITV News at 10 – the BS was in free-flow – as expected.
    Don’t know about the BBC yet. Anyone?

  122. EC – Did ITV give any clue as to how come they had a cameraman there before the Plod managed to arrive?

  123. 17% of British Muslims support terrorism in the UK. That’s 220,000. How do we know which ones?

    Is it not time for a halt to all Muslim immigration and the revocation of all visas and rights to remain for non-citizens as a first and immediate step.

  124. And I see the bien-pensants are predictably spouting their predictable admonishments about the EDL, but have they never thought exactly who is going to defend the Last Ditch?

  125. Plod took 20 minutes. I could have taken a train and got there before them!

    Driving through Maidstone this evening I noticed that the barracks had two police cars on duty at the entrance.

  126. PfM

    The armed Plod took 20 minutes. Meanwhile the Tasered wing of the Guardian/liberal party stood at a safe distance until their tooled up mates arrived. Meanwhile real human, caring folk tried to help the victim while confronted by diverse murdering savage !$lamic scum. And local plod just stood by and watched.

    In contrast tonight local plod are extremely comfortable confronting a small EDL protest in the area.

    UKIP supporters had better take a very low profile in Woolwich for a few days just in case plod takes offence.

  127. Anyway, Dave has a more pressing problem to deal with:
    Britain ‘should apologise for colonial injustices’ says Kenyan commission.

  128. “,,You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you.

    “Do you think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think your politicians are going to die?

    No, it’s going to be the average guy like you, and your children. So get rid of them.”

  129. I see that comments are closed on all Telegraph blogs relating to the Woolwich Horror (or “tragedy,” as one rather feebly has it).
    The DT’s coverage includes the assertion that the EDL are “exploiting” the savagery for their own “extreme right” purposes.
    In the same way, in c1940, the British government could have been accused of exploiting the Blitz to justify their aim of setting up the ARP.

  131. Rightly, there are calls for “something” to be done about the Woolwich horror and, predictably, politicians ring their hands and pontificate that it is only a few radicals.

    That being the case, without much effort, perhaps a few minor law changes can be applied to head off the threat.

    Firstly, a requirement that all religious gatherings and celebrations be carried out in English (or Welsh, where appropriate).

    A blanket prohibition on the removal of school-age children from the UK during term time and a travel prohibition for them of travel for more than 3 weeks.

    All juvenile females returning to the UK subject to a medical examination. Evidence of FGM grounds for them and all related children to be placed into care and both parents prosecuted for child abuse.

    The immediate ban by the EU on the sale of Halal and Kosher meat products, their production or importation.

    Boarding cards for entry into the UK (already required for entry to most Countries) to contain a legally-binding clause to comply with all UK laws and to make no statements contradicting or insulting the basic tenets of the Church of England.

    A ban on wearing any face covering in public.

    A national school uniform based upon a blazer and grey trousers, with the option of a skirt to knee length. Option available to any gender.

    A requirement for all religions to make a clear, unequivocal statement that they recognise the equality of men and woman, all races and religions and all sexual persuasions and, within a prescribed period, the editing of their teaching materials to remove any statements contradicting this position.

    A complete ban on all religious activities in open public spaces, except where it can be shown such activities have a demonstrable and continuous history exceeding 150 years in the United Kingdom, with the exception of any breaks during a period of war.

    All religious services open to men and women together and any and all faiths.

    An immediate cessation of the teaching of all religions in schools. Faith schools included. Madrassas to be closed with immediate effect.

    No praying in public open spaces nor in the workplace.

    No call to prayer by any electronic or enhanced means. No call to prayer outside the hours 9-00am to 6-00pm.

    An immediate ban on polygamy and marriages enacted outside the UK no longer recognised until solemnised in the UK.

    A reclassification of resident and citizen. No ambiguity – either a resident or a citizen or a tourist.

    Residents to require a visa to leave and enter the UK, including those from the EU. No voting rights. Children of residents to leave the UK at 18 (to any Country that will have them) and apply for re-entry under their own cognisance except that they may apply to be citizens at 16. A fee shall be payable to become a resident (It cost my wife and I $100,000) to become Australian residents and we are expected to apply to become citizens (and pay again) after 4 years. Thereafter, we will require a permit to re-enter if we leave)

    Citizens must be able to read and speak English to a recognised standard equivalent to GCSE., must swear an oath of allegiance to the UK and its laws, recognise it as a democracy, accept that the Church of England is its official religion and forgo both the passport of and right to reside in their Country of birth.

    A requirement for all citizens and residents to hold a photo ID card which formalises their right to be in the UK. It need not be a requirement to carry this card but it must be produced to obtain medical services, and government benefits, purchase petrol, or enter any premises licensed for the sale of alcohol on of off the premises (this latter to include supermarkets) Any and all commercial organisations shall have the right to request sight of such card before entering into any transaction at their discretion. Tourists shall produced a national passport, date stamped upon entry as evidence of their right to be in the UK as a visitor. Such stamp will cease to be valid after 1 year. Tourists shall not work and shall produce evidence of medical insurance before their passport is date stamped on entry.

    It shall be an offence to provide goods or services to any person not having the right to be in the UK. It shall be an offence to provide anything other than emergency medical treatment to any person who does not have the right to be in the UK or has travel insurance. These clauses will apply to businesses, state institutions, charities and individuals.

    All persons refused leave to remain in the UK shall be deported immediately. Where they depend upon a foreign court to uphold their right to remain, they will be immediately transferred to the nation where that Court is in session.

    Asylum claims will no longer be accepted in the UK – other than those arriving by air, it is impossible for an asylum seeker to enter the UK without passing through a state on the UN list of safe nations where they are required to lodge an application for asylum. Thus, if they wish to reside in the UK, the must apply for asylum in the first state they enter and then apply for residency in the UK from that state. For the few that arrive by air, the airline will be responsible for all costs until asylum is granted or refused. All others will be returned, in the first instance, to France unless they have evidence of entering the UK from another state, to which they will be returned.

    The majority of these points (or their inverse) actually apply in most of the nations the UK’s ‘enrichers’ slither in from, so they can hardly be classed as unreasonable.

    Over to you, the boy David.

  132. What you are proposing Clear Memories is no less the destruction of England than our enemies. The introduction of totalitarianism to solve a problem of security is not worth the loss of liberty.

    Some of your ideas are sensible but many are not conservative or Democratic. Why should my son’s brilliant school be closed? Why should I not pray in public? Why should I have to have an ID card so the state can validate me? Why should I have to recognise the C of E? Why should I not be allowed to take my child out of England in term time? I do not accept the equality of homosexuality and normal sexual behaviour.

    I am an Englishman. I may do all of these things. The problem is not Englishmen but certain groups of immigrants. The state would love to impose such restrictions on all English people but I’d rather have the risk of violence than lose our liberty so thoroughly.

  133. A few years ago I would have been arguing alongside you but things change. I believe that the only way back is actually to proceed in a draconian manner that will ultimately make it impossible for these animals to win. Only then can things relax back to the freedoms we should enjoy.

    I disagree that it is only a question of security. The UK and much of Europe are lurching back to the dark ages. What use is your sons education if the society he matures into sees him as a dhimmi, a second class citizen with no rights?

    My son went to a superb boys school, founded in 1215 and producing fine young men with standards and a sense of their place in society. He now lives in Australia for he saw no place for himself in your society.

    In a sane world, Islam would be laughed out of the UK, it’s archaic beliefs, innate bigotry and racism long ago stamped down upon by our lawmakers. But we don’t live in a sane world – we treat these mentally-deficient vermin as normal people when, in truth, they are demented. Those that refuse to recognise cultural relativism have much to answer for.

    To take the UK (and much of the West) back, I believe it is necessary to create a situation where their “freedoms” are neutralised and overcome and the only way that is going to happen, due to the basic inborn fairness of the average white Briton, is to create a society where all suffer some degree of oppression but their lifestyle is stifled and made impossible.

    I fear the alternative is Civil War, perhaps something akin to Syria. And who is to say your son would survive that or, perhaps worse, ultimately find himself on the losing side?

  135. Re: “Not in my name…” @22:57

    “No one has commented yet.”
    “Comments for this thread are now closed”

    Oh but they are commenting, Frasier. It’s just that you can’t hear the sound of subscriptions not being renewed!

  137. Glanced at the Times in Costa this morning.
    1. no leader on Woolwich. How can a national newspsper have no opinion on this?
    2. Another case of white girls being groomed by Moslems, at a case where the Judiciary allowed the victims to be subjected to a grilling in open court. That has been nicely buried.

  140. Alexsandr,

    If your on Twitter you could always “follow” then ask:

    Rupert Murdoch Verified account
    @rupertmurdoch

  142. Peter from Maidstone
    May 23rd, 2013 – 08:15

    Do you see any alternatives on the horizon?

  143. EC – 08:26 ‘The UK, after WW2’
    … and rationing! So it can be done.

    PfM – 04:27 ” ‘introduction of totalitarianism’
    I empathise with your views about this list, but this list needs to be treated as a set of escalating measures where it would be implemented in stages and, hopefully, only a few were required, and not as one, big bang, solution.

    The biggest cause of this horror has been around for decades. It is that many people whom we employ in the Country’s infrastructure, particularly in the public sector, do not have a traditional view of what Britain’s future should be and are working towards its destruction. They may not realise that this will destroy their career structure and the new structure will not find a place for them even if the money was available.

    I expect there are still a few there, or who are dependent on it, such as politicians, lawyers, social workers, lecturers in educational establishments and teachers with traditional views which can be described as the opposite of Marxism and Common Purpose, but they have been dwindling in numbers for many years and are now drowned out by the ‘modernisers’.
    They have been dismantling what this country has built up over centuries and has made Britain great but now it has nearly gone. Even Parliament is just a building where EU directives are carried out!

    I think that the most effective policies would, as always, be to dismantle those policies encouraging unwanted behaviour. Any policies that allows visitors here to quickly morph into voters and receivers of financial assistance (including housing benefit) are ludicrous in the current situation and need to be corrected. Our Government should be talking to us, not leaders of pressure groups; again a ludicrous position in which to be!

    As has been pointed out, there is a common factor in the many religious flash points around the world, and it is obvious to the man in the street, yet those in authority appear to be oblivious to this. The answer is not to change policy; it is to change those in authority so the policy can be made more appropriate, such as better control of our borders.

    Speaking English as a prerequisite for any state benefits would not only reduce the bill, it would also encourage those non-English/Welsh speakers to learn our language, enter into our culture and may be, even integrate or, if they find it uncomfortable, leave. After all, that is why they, or their older generation came to this country: they were uncomfortable where they were!

    On last night’s Newsnight, there were attempts to differentiate between the ROP and ROP-ism without any explanation as to how ‘Seek out the infidel and kill him’ cannot be considered as central to both. They also mentioned that there was nothing to counteract the propaganda that was driving the current horrors, (not to mention what has been happening in Sweden and elsewhere in Eurrope). They conveniently didn’t mention what could be used: British History or ‘uman rights?

  144. And GP’s saying they wont shore up the emergency cover.

    Now let me see. GP’s are paid sack loads of money now. They have opted out of out of hours provision. So they have become a 9-5 service. So working people cant see their GP unless they take time off.
    If they want to keep their fat salaries they should be forced to do sat AM surgeries, and have 1 evening when they work till 8, and make nurse appointments available then too. If they dont like it they can become private doctors and not take public money.

  146. Selina – 20:16 ‘Islamic terrorist murder?’

    To me, it looked like Sharia Law in action on the streets of London.

    But then, I am not an expert.

  147. I wonder how today’s Cobra meetings on the Woolwich butchers will be presented to the public. As I see it they have the problem of how to present their knowledge or lack of it concerning the 2 murderers. Do they say that they had no previous knowledge of them, a lot or a little?

    It would seem unlikely that they could admit to no knowledge as it says to the public that we have !$lamic savages in our midst who are capable of the worst crimes and the authorities don’t have an idea who they might be and therefore no idea on how many more we are incubating.

    This would seem an unlikely scenario in view of public order and news management implications.

    This would seem to leave 2 further options; i.e we knew a lot, or we knew a little.

    I would expect that they wouldn’t advocate the first as it may imply an assessment failure at some level in MI5. They also couldn’t say that we knew a lot but didn’t have the resources to cover all similarly assessed threats or that we don’t have the legal tools to deal with them.

    It could therefore be that they will decide to take a hit and admit to some limited knowledge but that it wasn’t enough to escalate surveillance on them but ‘procedures will be reviewed and lessons learned’

    It has to be said though that the Security Services have done phenomenally well since 7/7 in disrupting !$lams armed jihadi wing. It’s a shame they aren’t deployed in northern police forces and social work departments to counter !$lam’s grooming and drug dealing fronts.

  148. TIMES on line reports killer as `British` from Nigeria.Twitter reports his name as Michael (Mujahid) Abeboloja.Twitter has page for `Tommy Robinson EDL` and for `English Defence League`…Page headed EDL is hostile…..Page headed EDF is for the confused./……/Telegraph on line is hostile to EDF.

  149. Alexsandr

    “If they dont like it they can become private doctors and not take public money.”

    That’s just it, they are private, in that they are self employed usually in partnership, paid by the local health authority.

    They are, or when I was working were the only group of people who had a pension from the health service and could at the same time have private personal pensions.

  150. Alexsandr 23rd, – 09:49

    “If they want to keep their fat salaries they should be forced to do sat AM surgeries, and have 1 evening when they work till 8, and make nurse appointments available then too. If they dont like it they can become private doctors and not take public money.”

    At the inception of the NHS, the much-lauded (by Labour) Urine Bevan was asked how he’d got the BMA on side.
    His brutal response was, “Stuffed their mouths with gold.”

    The tosser trumpeting on ‘Today’ this morning was relying on the short-term memory of the bulk of the population (and the ‘Today’ presenter). If they’d had their wits about them they could easily have pulled him up short. But that presumes that the actually do have ‘wits’.

  151. They should tell them to wear the uniforms if they wish to.
    And part of that uniform should a gun.

  153. Just heard some migration figures on the BBC which reveal the bogus and dissembling nature of figures described as Net.
    Last year emigration was at 347,000
    Last year immigration was at 500,000 (that’s down from 581,000)

    Was it the Duke of Wellington who said, “just because someone’s born in a stable, it doesn’t make them a horse.”?

  156. Perhaps Cameron and Hammond would like military personnel to wear towels on their heads, whilst the female military can wear burkas.

  157. In the telegraph (“comments closed”) the EDL are described as “extreme right”. Which once again raises the question in my mind, what is “right” – or “left” come to that.
    Positions on many subjects are routinely described as “right,” “centre-left” etc but just what is this underlying quality of right or leftness?
    I’ve never heard a definition, and I can’t think of one – any suggestions?

  158. `Mujahid Adeboloja` said to be born in Britain.Most informative site is London Evening Standard.

  159. I don’t want my liberties restricted in the name of dealing with some threat. I don’t believe politicians believe there is a threat other than from English conservatives.

    Anyone who restricts my freedom to worship as a Christian Englishman becomes an enemy of liberty. If I want to lead worship in public I will do so. I am an Englishman.

    Mr. Boot has always insisted that both World Wars were significant in increasing the extent of the state. Some powers were reduced, most were not.

    I am happy with the uniform my son wears. I see no reason for a national intrusion and yet more bureaucracy. If we wish to address the issue of Islam then let us say so. There should be no head coverings worn in schools. But this will also impact on Sikh older boys. My understanding is that Sikhs do not need to wear the larger turban. Teachers and staff can also be required by law not to cover their faces or heads. But I think the issue of a simple head covering is not such an issue except where it is used to express aggressive difference. Not very long ago I wore a cap to school. And most women cover their heads in worship in my Churches.

    I would stop all immigration of Muslims. I would rescind all visas for Muslims. All non-British citizens would immediately lose the right to vote or stand in any elections. Indeed I would require all those standing for election to have been born in the UK.

    As Verity has described, no non-British citizen should be permitted to engage in any political activity. No organisations committed to Islamic political agendas would be allowed.

    All Islamic vigilante groups would be imprisoned if they harrass communities. All meat offered to Allah must be clearly identified and must not be served to non-Muslim organisations without explicit and informed consent.

    The size of mosques would be restricted to prevent mega-mosques being built. All speeches must be recorded and given in English. Madrassa curriculums must be standardised and in English.

    Citizenship would be provisional after 5 years of good behaviour and employment. Periods of unemployment would not be counted towards citizenship. A further 5 years of provisional citizenship would take place during which citizenship could be lost. Lack of citizenship would not be a valid reason for continuing presence in the UK.

    All immigrants must report to a police station on a very regular basis. Failure to attend will lead to deportation. Biometric details of all immigrants will be taken on entry. No immigrants will be released on bail to disappear if held on suspicion of crime.

    Foreign prisoners given custodial sentences will be deported. They can exercise their right to a family life elsewhere. All threats to life and to the British people made at demonstrations will be treated as definite intent to harm.

    All Muslim governmental officials and civil servants must swear to uphold the democratic principles and traditions of England and contact with Islamic political groups would count as a dismissal offence, including for MPs.

    I don’t see any of these measures affect the liberty of Englisn men but they do address the real issue and the real threat.

  161. Peter from Maidstone@May 23rd, 2013 – 14:15

    Pity one of them was born in England……

  163. Many of the IRA were born into our own community. Terrorism is like that. But a restriction on all political Islam would help. As would the prohibition on all but the simplest allowance for Islam in prisons. Schools must also teach about the danger of subversive ideologies rather than how to engage in gay sex.

  164. Also an Islamline so that those becoming more violent can be anonymously reported.

    When I encourage people to become more committed Christians they pray more, seek to be more virtuous and kind to others, and put into practice the precepts of Christ.

    Unfortunately when a person becomes more committed to the teachings of Islam they can become a real threat to others and should be noted.

  165. John birch May 23rd, 2013 – 10:28

    “What’s the betting the two killers were on benifits.”

    Or as Mr Choudray would put it, were in receipt of the Jizya payable by we Kuffiirs to support the faithful.

  167. Peter from Maidstone@May 23rd, 2013 – 15:52

    We have let these people come here, create ghettos, like savilletown in Dewsbury which are no-go for the indigenous population. We have allowed them to groom and rape our children, we turn a blind eye to their genital mutilation and forced child marriage. Yet we bend over backwards translating stuff for them and the PC brigade is scared of enforcing the law against them for fear of causing offence.

    Time for a step change. Obey our laws, talk our language or go somwhere else.

  168. PfM 14.15

    No mention of welfare, health and benefits reform in you proposals. A contribution and personal insurance based welfare system would entirely eliminate welfare driven migration.
    In addition, prohibition of UK property acquisition until 3 years after attaining full UK citizenship (13 years total), would ameliorate help force the release of foreign owned rental housing stock to our own young people.

  169. Noa, I was talking about Muslim immigration rather than in general. Since I’d stop all Muslim immigration and send non citizens home there would be no payment of benefits.

  170. Peter from Maidstone May 23rd, 2013 – 14:17

    “I’m in Scotland for a long weekend. I’ll report any racist incidents I experience.”

    Try asking a policeman for directions (even if you do not need them) and see whether he is polite and courteous to you in his reply.

  171. Daily Telegraph: 16.10 Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political Editor, has apologised for saying the attackers were of “Muslim appearance”.

    Well, what else could he do?

    Here is the quote of a quote:
    The police had, I was told, described the attackers as being “of Muslim appearance” and shouting “Allahu Akbar”. On air I directly quoted a senior Whitehall source saying that the police had used that description.

    That phrase “of Muslim appearance” clearly offended some who demanded to know what it could possibly mean. Others were concerned that it was a racist generalisation.”

    Will the Police apologise? Then, will they apologise for apologising?

    TCHGSRM – This country has gone stark raving mad!

  172. Another from the Daily Telegraph:
    16.16 Julie Siddiqi, of the Islamic Society of Britain, tells the Telegraph that Britain’s Muslim community have been left “sickened” by the horrific killing of a soldier in Woolwich “just like everybody else”.

    Yes, I would put ‘just like everybody else’ in quotes as well.

    What happened looked very much like Sharia Law in action, so for those who study it, including BO I would expect, it wouldn’t be a “just like everybody else”.

  173. RobertC
    May 23rd, 2013 – 16:35
    Daily Telegraph: 16.10 Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political Editor, has apologised for saying the attackers were of “Muslim appearance”.
    What is muslim appearance? Muslims like rats come in all shades from white to black!

  174. What is muslim appearance? Muslims like rats come in all shades from white to black!

  177. Because the issue was Islam. I am more than happy to widen restrictions but in regard to the present violent threat to us all – will a young mother be beheaded next – we must treat Muslims and Islam as a real threat and act accordingly.

  179. Obama is at this moment blowing more smoke up the arses of the US electorate than was produced by the Great Fire of London, circa 1666. All in an attempt to deflect the jackals at his heels. Desperate!

    The longest turd of bs he has ever laid in one strain. What a flim-flam artist this Chicago spawned shyster is. Egregious!

  180. Peter from Maidstone – 23 May 15:52

    You wrote – “……. a restriction on all political Islam would help.”

    I agree up to a point, but I don’t understand your implying that there is a distinction between “political” Islam and other sorts.

    Does not the Koran itself make it clear that one of Islam’s main and unchangeable pillars is the overthrow of all non-Muslim governments and the establishment of a worldwide Caliphate (i.e. government)?

    And that, among other things, in order to achieve that objective, Muslims have the right and duty to subjugate all non-Muslims and even in the case of many of them, especially apostates and Jews, exterminate them?

  182. Herbert, the difference between political and religious Islam (though I do not consider it good or Godly) is that Islam as a political ideology wishes to subjugate the world, while religious Islam may be considered the worship of Allah and various personal observances.

    There is naturally a political aspect to Christianity, but it does not seek to violently subjugate the world, though it desires all people to have the opportunity to become Christian. And Christianity is part of our society and our history and inheritance.

    I am happy to restrict the expression of Islam in this country, but not to the extent that all practice of the religious aspects are prohibited. As soon as the practice extends beyond the mosque to become a threat to our society then it should be restricted. If we stop people in the private exercise of thought then we have ceased to be who we are.

    Islam should be restricted because it wishes to subvert the political and social arena. To that extent it is totalitarian. I believe that much of socialism is totalitarian in the same way, and should be equally resisted on the same grounds – that it seeks to use the freedoms of our society to destroy our society.

    There are Muslims who do not believe in the literal subjugation of all to Islam. To the extent that such are able to live with us and among us then I don’t see them as the same type of threat. I am often invited to inter-Faith conferences with religious rather than political Islam. It is for Muslims to decide if such people are the real Islam. But it seems that we should be free to object to all expressions of Islam, and Socialism, which deny our liberties and seek to silence our voices.

  183. It is interesting that two more people have been arrested on conspiracy to murder in relation to yesterday’s terrorist attack. This rather seems to contradict the official Government line that this was a lone pair. There are at least four of them. And Adebolajo is in photos standing next to Choudary at protests. I hope that he will be questioned rigourously as well.

  184. I see this in the DT…

    He is known to have been a preacher on the streets of Woolwich and is understood to have run an occasional stall in the area, from which he distributed extremist literature condemning the involvement of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    So is there a website and/or phone line to report people like this, and will they be stopped immediately. I can imagine what would happen if a local Christian church was peacefully distributing leaflets criticising homosexuality. Banged up straight away for hate crimes. Inciting the beheading of people is a part of our rich cultural diversity.

  185. Imagine how the Woolwich murder would have been reported had we been back in pre-internet days with the BBC and ITV in command and managing news in cooperation with the authorities. It would have been just another south London murder (the victim being a soldier) with the local press being subject to behind the scenes ‘persuasions’ against ‘inflammatory’ reporting.

    It would only be during a trial (assuming a not guilty plea) that some of the legally allowable truth may emerge. Even this of course would be subject to deals between prosecution and defence.

    Now it is different and their job of managing news and directing the country’s views are so much more difficult.

    One of the most enthusiastic exponents of the task in hand is Peter Allen who co-hosts BBC Radio 5’s ‘Drivetime’ show on weekdays. Ever keen to deflect and dissemble Pete today interviewed a Mu$l!m ‘expert’ on extremism. Feeding interviewees helpful lines sometimes doesn’t work however as Pete offered the view that Christian converts seemed to be some of the most extreme 1$lamists. To the mu$l!m’s credit he answered with a straightforward “No”.

    Also in today’s show he interviewed the leader of a Luton mosque and thanks to his ingratiating and non challenging manner allowed the culturally disconnected idiot to show just how unaffected they are by events. Pete allowed him free range to outline the tragic results for mu$l!ms of their co-religionist’s savagery in Woolwich.

    The man – get this – had already heard of people cancelling trips to Alton Towers as they were afraid of people looking at them if they were wearing hijabs.

    He also allowed the moron to repeat the lie which the BBC are hoping to embed in the public consciousness, that !$lam forbids murder. The classic bit of taqqiya goes.

    “If anyone slays a person, it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”
    This quote, as Robert Spencer and others have pointed out is taken completely out of context.

    What the verse actually says is;

    “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person – unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity”

    In other words the exhortation applies to jews and not mu$l1ms.

    For more context see this at Wiki – Is

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/If_Anyone_Slew_a_Person_(Qur'an_5:32)

  186. PfM – 23 May 21:18

    You are of course be right that some people who think of themselves as Muslims reject the idea that Islam has the right and duty to subjugate non-Muslims.

    But the problem is that so long as the Koran exists, it provides ample authority for such rejection to be treated as un-Islamic – as heresy – even as a rejection of Islam.

    There is a kind of analogy in the example of Typhoid Mary. She was a carrier of the Typhoid virus, but happily for her she was immune to it. But her very presence among other people was enough to infect them – and they very often developed & died from, full-blown, Typhoid fever.

    It is the same with Islam. “Moderate” Muslims do not necessarily pass on their moderation to others or to their descendents who, because the Koran is treated as sacrosanct, are permanently exposed to the temptation of embracing the most aggressive kinds of Jihad set out in the Koran .

    Frankly, I doubt very much that your suggested policy can succeed any better than have the policies of the late Kemal Ataturk. His Secularism – thanks to the Turkish military – worked in Turkey for several decades, but Islamists have at last managed to weaken the Turkish military to the point where Turkey is now in grave danger of reverting to an Islamic form of government.

  187. Herbert, the problem is that there are temptations to pass on Marxism and other harmful isms as well. I am not sure that it is acceptable to me at least to prevent all thought. But it must be proper to stop actions and preparations. If someone says they are happy to be Muslim without the political aspects then I am able to accept that with certain monitoring. But if a child becomes ‘radicalised’ then I would have all the monitoring to pick that up, and would rigourously prevent the spreading of such material in print, internet, CD, DVD etc.

    Turkey is not a good example of what I have suggested, I think, because it is still a majority Muslim country. Of course it will always tend to slip into Islamism. But we are not a Muslim country. We can monitor the activities of Islamic groups and prohibit them because we are not a majority Muslim country. We can deport dangerous Muslims because we are not a majority Muslim country. Turkey is not and so is always facing an overwhelming pressure.

    We still have time. But we must act now.

  188. It would also be possible to support in some degree those Muslims who interpret the Koran in accordance with our own Traditions of liberty, while opposing and prosecuting those who adopt an interpretation of Islam which would wish to subvert our liberties.

    But the same should be in force in regard to other groups, including secular ones, who wish to use our liberty to subvert our liberty. I think we need some clearly enunciated principles that prevent our democracy being used to subvert our democracy – when we have fixed it.

  189. Peter from Maidstone – 21:18 ‘religious or political’

    “There are Muslims who do not believe in the literal subjugation of all to Islam.”
    Either they are fooling you or they are not obeying what is expected of them. Their instructions are written down in a book and it is quite explicit on what to do with infidels! It is not very Christian.

    “To the extent that such are able to live with us and among us then I don’t see them as the same type of threat.”
    They are living between two cultures that are not compatible. That is why there is a problem. And what about their children? Many terrorists are second or third generation immigrants yearning for an imaginary culture, with the certainty of their elders’ fantasies, and the perks of living in the West.

    This dichotomy occurs with Socialists, who enjoy the fruits of Capitalism with the security of the ever expanding Welfare State.

    It may last a while but the wheels will come off as soon as new, usually younger, people take over the reigns and do not have the understanding required to hold it together. That is when the terrorism starts.

  190. RobertC, I dont disagree. But I think prosecution of thought or of potential crimes is wrong and not British. If vigilance is required then we must be vigilant to act against the first appearance of political Islam.

  191. PfM – 22:33 ‘Turkey is not a good example of what I have suggested”

    We are not a majority Muslim country. Well, not at the moment!

    Erdogan, the Prime Minister of Turkey, is the Islamist who said to his cheering supporters:
    “Democracy is only the train we board and then get off when we have reached our destination. The mosques are our barracks, the minarets our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the faithful our soldiers.”

    There is only one Koran and it doesn’t sound like there is much room for our culture: http://www.examiner.com/article/as-muslim-population-grows-what-can-happen-to-a-society

  192. PfM – 22:48 – ‘I don’t disagree’
    I am relieved. It is confusing when mixed messages are received. I also agree that many of the medicines are worse than the illness as they would change ourselves.

    A chameleon is a difficult animal to follow.

  195. There was a “mouthy” atmosphere at the gym this lunchtime…several ‘young bloods’ joking about “getting fit so’s they can sort out the jehad if they try to kick it off here”.
    OK, it was mostly bullsh*t and bravado, but if the youngsters in this wee market town (which, in the language of the appalling Greg Lesbian, would be called “hideously white”) are talking like this, despite knowing that nothing’s going to kick off, how much worse must it be in the ‘smoke’?

    “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.” might have been the substance of that blood-soaked savage’s speech on TV last night, but that can work both ways.

  197. “Woolwich attack: Suspects known to security services”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634468

    Why does the BBC insist on calling the perps “suspects”?

    Speaking outside 10 Downing Street on Thursday, Mr Cameron said: “One of the best ways of defeating terrorism is to go about our normal lives.”

    Yeah that’s right, look the other way, move along, nothing to see here!

  198. I have lifted this from Hugh_Oxford @ ToryHome:
    “What frustrates me is that the Home Secretary already has powers to remove British Citizenship from people if they have dual citizenship, or it is believed they could have citizenship of another country.

    This would cover the vast majority of Islamic fundamentalists. Maybe not these men but the men that brainwashed them in prison (I assume), and the many others whose plans have been foiled.

    How hard can it be to identify Islamic fundamentalists and remove their British citizenship?”

    Is this true? If so, why doesn’t it happen? The EU family of organisations?

  199. EC – 23:47 “Woolwich attack: Suspects known to security services”
    You didn’t complete your post. It should read:

    Yeah that’s right, look the other way, move along, nothing to see here! BOOOM!

  200. EC @ 23:47

    For a decade!

    And: “Michael Adebolajo was among a group of Islamist Extremists who clashed with police outside the Old Bailey in 2006” (caption to phpto on DT)

    So much for the “lone wolf” theory, which CNN was touting on Thursday night Peking time.

  201. Government uses “lone wolf” argument to call for more powers:

    “Speaking on BBC2’s Newsnight, Lord Carlile said: “We have to learn proportionate lessons from what has occurred…. I hope that this will give the Government pause for thought about their abandonment for example of the Communcations Data Bill and possibly pause for thought about converting control orders into what are now called Tpims, with a diluted set of powers.

    “Lone wolves, even though they are always inevitably connected at least with internet training, are very difficult to catch so we must give the authorities proportionate tools to catch them.” ”

    (DT’s live blog at 00:30 yesterday)

  203. Tommy Robinson is interviewed at the link below for 30 minutes. In my view, in his wide-ranging comments he comes across intelligent, thoughtful, informed, reasonable and articulate.

    Of course I am a swivel-eyed loon.

    Nonetheless, I would dare Fraser Nelson to examine the interview, engage with it, and write a piece explaining what he finds in it to disagree with and why he disagrees.

    I would dare the prime minister to do the same.

    I would dare Nigel Farage to follow suit.

    I would dare Ed Milliband.

    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1919-tommy-robinson-response-to-woolwich-attack

    Go on, thenl I dare you!

  204. Malfleur
    May 24th, 2013 – 02:42

    He knows he’s right, anyone who listens to him knows he’s right.
    You would have to be in denial To disagree with any of this interview .

  205. The discussions about what needs to be done about Islam – and PfM’s concerns for civil liberties – bring to mind that in WW2 more than 1,000 people were arrested and held in custody under Defence Regulation 18B because they were Nazi sympathisers and considered to be a danger to national security.

    The detentions were controversial, and as the war progressed, the number of detainees steadily decreased – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B.

    I am drawing attention to this because the number of people who were known to be Nazi sympathisers – just over 1,000 – makes a very interesting comparison with the numbers of Muslims now in Britain. It appears to be nearly 3 million. So the crucial question is – what percentage of that 3 million are dangerous extremists or sympathisers? There are some frightening estimates, but even if only 1% of them fall into that category they total around 30,000.

    In that situation can traditional British standards of civil liberties still function as a shield for us? Are they now instead a lethal millstone round our necks – one that helps our mortal enemies instead of us?

  207. This is abit long, but after the heavy stuff you may like to move on to matters of the state, Baron thought. As you can see nothing’s lost yet, the Navy as often before, will have the last laugh.

    The Royal Navy is proud to announce its new fleet of Type 45 destroyers.

    Having initially named the first two ships HMS Daring and HMS Dauntless, the Naming Committee has, after intensive pressure from Brussels, renamed them HMS Cautious and HMS Prudence. The next five ships are to be HMS Empathy, HMS Circumspect, HMS Nervous, HMS Timorous and HMS Apologist.

    Costing £850 million each, they comply with the very latest employment, equality, health & safety and human rights laws. The Royal Navy fully expects any future enemy to be jolly decent and to comply with the same high standards of behaviour. The new user-friendly crow’s nest has excellent wheelchair access.

    Live ammunition has been replaced with paintballs to reduce the risk of anyone getting hurt and to cut down on the number of compensation claims. Stress counsellors and lawyers will be on board, as will a full sympathetic industrial tribunal. The crew will be 50/50 men and women, and will contain the correct balance of race, gender, sexuality and disability. Sailors will only work a maximum of 37hrs per week as per Brussels Rules on Working Hours, even in wartime. All the vessels are equipped with a maternity ward, a crèche and a gay disco. Tobacco will be banned throughout the ship, but recreational cannabis will be allowed in wardrooms and messes.

    The Royal Navy is eager to shed its traditional reputation for; “Rum, sodomy and the lash”; so out has gone the rum ration, replaced by sparkling water. Sodomy remains, now extended to include all ratings under 18. The lash will still be available on request.

    Saluting of officers is now considered elitist and has been replaced by “Hello Sailor”. All information on notice boards will be in 37 different languages and Braille. Crew members will now no longer have to ask permission to grow beards and/or moustaches. This applies equally to female crew.

    The MoD is inviting suggestions for a “non-specific” flag because the White Ensign may offend minorities. The Union Jack must never be seen. The newly re-named HMS Cautious will be commissioned shortly by Captain Hook from the Finsbury Park Mosque, who will break a petrol bomb over the hull. She will gently slide into the sea as the Royal Marines Band plays “In the Navy” by the Village People. Her first deployment will be to escort boatloads of illegal immigrants to ports on England ‘s south coast.

    The Prime Minister said, “Our ships reflect the very latest in modern thinking and they will always be able to comply with any new legislation from Brussels .”

    His final words were, “Britannia waives the rules.”

  208. Benghazi Update

    “Reports have been recently circulating that President Obama’s State Department mistakenly sold Stinger missiles to al-Qaeda in Libya, thinking that they were more friendly insurgents. Then, according to a PJ Media story based on unnamed whistleblower accounts, Ambassador Chris Stevens went to Benghazi to try to buy the mistakenly transferred weapons back. If true, this incredibly botched operation may well have cost Ambassador Stevens and three other Americans their lives.”

    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-klein/rand-pauls-stand-against-arming-islamist-syrian-rebels/

  209. Whose country is it anyway?

    “…in our lands women have to see the same.”

    OUR lands? Ok, renounce your British nationality and, when you leave gaol, bugger off.

  210. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330180/Woolwich-attacks-Two-men-arrested-offensive-Twitter-comments-Lee-Rigbys-death.html

    Reading between the lines (“These comments were directed against a section of our community. Comments such as these are completely unacceptable and only cause more harm to our community in Bristol.”), one is forced to assume that Plod, useless as always, unable to protect the decent and law-abiding, has reacted to the unbridled anger of the indigenous.

    We used to joke that you couldn’t be a copper if your parents were married. Now it seems, you can’t be a copper if you recognise your parentage in the mirror. Brainwashed as they are, they pursue this slight on ‘community’ in the same manner as they turned out, in full force and riot gear and in less than 20 minutes, when the EDL mobilised.

    Clearly, the white, British non.Mulsim population are not just faced with the dangers of an alien culture but one that is protected by the organs of the State.

    I trust, when the mosques are burning and the blood of Muslims runs freely in the streets, our politicians, the media and the BBC’s talking heads will react as they do when similar stories about Christians and Churches are posted from Egypt, Nigeria, Mali and all the other hellholes where Islam has a toehold.

  211. Why are the MSM banning comments on everything? What are they scared of?
    That people may actually tell the truth.
    when will they start again? It will be hard to remove the ban because they will get a torrent of comments as people catch up.

  212. Herbert, the DT survey in 2006 (IIRC) found that 6% of Muslims in the UK positively supported the 2005 London bombings and 25% were sympathetic. I speak about this in my post on the site. That means about 100,000 at least who support terrorism in the UK in a positive manner.

    I do think the fact of detention during WW2 of those of German and Japanese background was reasonable and necessary for a time.

    I am not willing to lose my own liberty for the sake of a pretended security. It is not worth it.

    Benjamin Franklin said..

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    I agree with this entirely. The objects of this essential liberty must be British citizens not all who find themselves here. Therefore it must be possible and proper to preserve the liberties of the one while restricting those of the others as necessary. But in the first place it is required to know what it is that we are protecting and what subversive use of our liberties must be prohibited.

  213. I find James Forsyth’s piece in the DT, suggesting that we should not look for any logic in the attack, and that support for terrorism is dying everywhere among Muslims to be pretty despicable. In a Muslim Government I think he would be happy to be Deputy Minister for Dhimmis, continuing to insist that more immigration is needed and that we must love Islam.

    I find it hard to even see a copy of the Spectator nowadays.

  214. Malfleur
    May 24th, 2013 – 00:41

    I would suggest that the dishonourable Lord Carlile is a passive supporter of terrorism. And that is understating his position!

  215. PfM 10:05

    “Benjamin Franklin said..

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    May I take this to mean that you support the position that, as Governments worldwide are taking no steps to provide protection from the Islamic menace, we must take up arms ourselves against this threat to our lives? And that, as an avowed Christian, you support, as I do, the murder of other humans on the grounds that it is better to terminate their sad and demented lives, based, as they are, upon evident untruths and lies?

    Or do you follow the teachings of your God and turn the other cheek, in the sure and certain knowledge that that action will result in your head being smitten from your neck whilst the followers of the demented epileptic spread their vile beliefs across the face of the planet?

    As an avowed atheist, I am starting to run exceedingly short of tolerance towards the unproven and indemonstrable habits of broad sections of society.

    Perhaps my permanent safety is to be determined by the removal of all those of ‘faith’?

  216. Clear Memories, I have no idea what you are going on about.

    Do you want a conversation or do you want to abuse me? I am happy to have a conversation and I thought I was having one. But you do not seem to want to grant me the liberty to express my views and seem to want to deport me. I find that sort of view as appalling as that held by Muslims. It is certainly not British.

  217. “I am starting to run exceedingly short of tolerance towards the unproven and indemonstrable habits of broad sections of society.”

    Oooh, bully for you. Case you hadn’t realised, this blog is for freedom lovers.

  218. Clear Memories, you seem to offer two false alternatives. There are many others. You have already removed yourself from the UK where we who remain must deal with this threat ourselves. You are proposing either that all Muslims be murdered, or that we must all be murdered. If these are your views then I am pretty glad that you do not live here.

    I do not believe that all Muslims should be murdered or subject to violence. I do believe that all Muslims should be subject to the law which should exist to preserve our British liberties. Murdering people because of their thoughts is no part of the Britain I wish to conserve. Murdering people at all is no part of the future I imagine. There are many other actions which should be taken.

  219. Baron (quoting): “Our ships reflect the very latest in modern thinking and they will always be able to comply with any new legislation from Brussels .”

    Well, thank goodness for that. Of course, when one’s nation needs defending, the first thing one thinks of is getting French and German permission.

  220. I am amazed why so many immigrants from hot countries come here with British weather.

    Its MAY, whats with the howling gales and rain?

  222. Dean S. – Tolerance has limits. Where do you draw your line? Did Wednesday not reach yours? Removing heads in the name of religion is acceptable?

    PfM. Where is(are) the false alternatives? Firstly, you must understand that, as far as Islam is concerned, either you accept their rule or you die. There is no alternative to Allah, that is their words, not mine so either the government that currently exists in the UK accepts Islam is a threat to the UK. Or it accepts Islam overrules the laws of the UK. Or it deals with Islam on Islams’ own terms. They will not recognise your laws, because they are the laws of man and they only recognise the laws of Allah.

    Having lived amongst them on their terms, I have no wish to see that lifestyle imposed on any more of the planet than it currently is. I have more respect for my wife and daughter.

    I do not believe that all Muslims should be murdered, but I do believe that they should be treated in exactly the same way that you would treat a venomous snake – they are not to be trusted, they do not think in the same way a humans and if they get too close and make threatening gestures and statements, they should be dealt with accordingly.

    Sadly, there is no serum to cure the effects of Islam.

    And as for laws, I reiterate, Muslims recognise no laws except the Koran. Perhaps the first action Call-me-Dave might take is to place this vile hate document in the same category as Mein Kampf?

    I won’t hold my breath.

    Finally, PfM, I have no wish to see you deported – it is your nation. I have no argument with Christianity as it is a faith of tolerance (since the Reformation!) I have left the UK largely because of the foul Blair and the unfair treatment of the indigenous population (and I consider I and my family lucky). I curse Blair to eternity, however, because in large areas of the planet he has made being British shameful. I weep to see my original homeland in such a hopeless and impotent state.

  223. I’m off to bed now – enjoy your lunches over there.

    Just remember, if Islam wins, there’ll be no more bacon sandwiches or sausages!

  224. The words attributed to Benjamin Franklin –

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    lead inexorably to a disturbing idea that I find difficult to swallow – i.e. that because in 1940 the British imprisoned 1000 people to protect the nation the British deserved neither liberty nor safety and that the Blitz served them right.

    Obtaining ‘a little temporary safety’ is obviously not a worthwhile aim. What is worthwhile is doing our utmost to secure permanent safety.

    We had no duty to turn the other cheek to Hitler – nor do we have any duty to turn the other cheek to the permanent Jihad of Islam.

  225. Herbert, your argument is flawed. Our liberty was preserved by the restrictions placed on those who were Germans living among us.

    What Franklin is talking about is the rush to restrict the liberty of native British people for the sake of a bogus security. There are those who have posted here in support of an even more totalitarian Government as if that would make us safe. It is as British people regain their liberty that we will be secure.

    I am well aware of what Islam is like. I belong to a community who has suffered and still suffers under the Islamic yoke. But it is the law and our liberty which will preserve us. Not pogroms.

  226. Peter from Maidstone@May 24th, 2013 – 12:47

    We dont need any more laws. We need the Police, the border agency and the judiciary to enforce the ones we have already.

    Check girls for genital mutilation. That is child abuse. Parents should be prosecuted if their child is so mutilated.
    Monitor places where Moslems congregate and check for incitements to hate or to kill and arrest and prosecute those who do.
    Ensure the law is upheld in the Islamist ghettoes. Check their vehicles are legal, check the people there are in the country legally.
    Monitor Muslem girls through the education system and act when they disappear suggesting a forced marriage. Parents whose childern disappear to ‘home’ countries should be prosecuted for child abuse.

    And change the culture of fear in the police and public services that allows ethnic groups to evade the law because they see investigating them as racist. If you dont want to do your job checking these people, find another job.

  227. You might look-up *Ahmadiyya* Muslim Community(commended by Tommy Robinson on Twitter) and *Ahmadiyya Times*.

  228. Is there a concise definitive, (slightly understated), source for the general public to use to determine what the Koran contains and its implication? In English, I might add!

    It looks like all the issues ‘they’ have with the West originate from this book, yet it is so often misquoted. I recently followed a link to an explanation to one of BO’s quotes that was really describing how the Jews needed to behave, yet the next verse was somewhat different in style and content. Is this link on this site or has someone else seen it else where?

  229. Radford NG
    May 24th, 2013 – 13:35

    Yes, and for considerably more detail and information on Ahmadiyya see Ed West’s article in the current edition of Standpoint:

    http://standpointmag.co.uk/features-may-13-persecuted-muslims-who-love-life-in-london-ed-west-immigration

    (persecuted by other muslims of course)

    Alexsandr
    May 24th, 2013 – 13:24

    I think you are on the right track here to developing a coherent and effective policy – something which neither the government nor the opposition has even attempted. Tommy Robinson (of the English Defence League) elaborates something similar in the interview to which I provided a link above.

    If there are sensitive souls observing this blog and whose knees begin to tremble with embarrassment at the very idea of clicking on an EDL link, the same interview is also available at the slightly more respectable address of:

    http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/05/were-justified-in-our-anger/

    I really would recommend that people watch this interview from beginning to end, even if it risks confusing them with the facts about what the EDL actually thinks. Otherwise, contributors here will be little better than the Bullingon Party whose spokesman, with all the grasp on reality of Neville Chamberlain returning from Munich, yesterday declared of the murder of Mr. Lee Rigby that “There is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act”.

  230. Alexsandr
    May 24th, 2013 – 13:24
    The laws exist but the desire to enforce them disappeared when you had to have a social worker mindset to be a police chief .
    Diversity and tolerance became the focal point.
    Bringing in teachers from anywhere except teacher training college is the only way to start clearing the left out of teaching.
    We need a new system to bring In police at the highest level who are untainted by common purpose or any other nonsense.
    While this problem exists nothing will change.

  232. Alexsandr @12:23

    You mean the Romans?

    Why , it’s a perfectly good summer’s day, in Yorkshire…
    🙂

  233. Clegg said this today. It seems to me to be a deeply evil comment really..

    Mr Clegg said: “Over the last few days London has shown itself at its best: an unbreakable city once again refusing to bow to hatred and violence. Of all the groups and faiths represented here today, I would like to pay special tribute to London’s Muslim community.

    “An unspeakable act has been conducted in their name. Yet while this has provoked feelings of frustration and anger – it flies in the face of the peace and love that Islam teaches – Muslim organisations, Mosques, Imams and community leaders have responded with a call for unity and calm. They have set an example for us all.”

  234. PfM – 24 May 12:45

    Peter, I don’t accept that my argument is flawed. The suggestion that the only detainees under Regulation 18B were Germans is simply not correct. The most famous detainee was of course Sir Oswald Mosley (who was not released until November 1943). Other British detainees included a Member of Parliament (A.M.Ramsay who was not released until 26 September 1944), Admiral Sir Barry Domvile and Sir Reginald Goodall.

    I agree that Franklin had in mind the liberty of native British people, but I do not believe for an instant that he would have thought of Muslim immigrants or their descendants as ‘native British people’.

    I also ask you to reconsider your writing – “……it is the law and our liberty which will preserve us. Not pogroms.” Hyperbole sometimes has its place, but “pogrom” means “organised massacre” and neither I nor any other poster has advocated that British people should carry out massacres of Muslims living in Britain.

    The kind of policy towards Islam that you advocate is too weak and is bound to fail. The only rational and effective policy with respect to Islam in Britain is that it should be totally & humanely prohibited. That policy should be enforced, if necessary, by deporting anyone who defies the prohibition – but certainly not enforced by means of pogroms.

    I entirely agree with what you write (24 May 18:31) about Clegg’s comment.

  235. Herbert, it has been suggested here that Muslims should be murdered. And I do not see how Islam can be banned. If Islam is to be banned merely as an idea then anything can be banned. And will be.

    I am not at all sure how what I have suggested could be conidered by anyone to be weak. What do you understand me to have said? I’d have thought that the removal of all Muslim non-citizens would be considered quite a robust response. And the banning and criminalising of all Islamic political organisations would also be considered robust I’d have thought.

    But once you start locking people up for what they might have thought then we are not living in my England any more but Stalinist Russia.

  236. Herbert, Clear Memories states that he does not wish to see Muslims murdered, so I accept that his earlier comment was not well written. But he said…

    May I take this to mean that you support the position that, as Governments worldwide are taking no steps to provide protection from the Islamic menace, we must take up arms ourselves against this threat to our lives? And that, as an avowed Christian, you support, as I do, the murder of other humans on the grounds that it is better to terminate their sad and demented lives, based, as they are, upon evident untruths and lies?

    That sounded like a progrom to me.

    Personally I see Islam as a major threat to the UK but not the greatest. It can be reduced to minimal levels by deportation and serious restrictions. But the real threat would continue apace if that was all that happened.

  237. The sanctimonious blether, the platitudes and the quotations from the Q’ran, from Cameron, Clegg and the fat fool Pickles today were deeply insulting to the intelligence of English patriots past and present and a treasonous slur on the memory of Drummer Rigby. Arse-licking the Mullahs of the barbarous cult and swallowing their taqiyya was disgusting!

  238. Daniel Greenfield has written his characteristic perceptive essay on Sultan Knish blog regarding the Woolwich butchering, notwithstanding a couple of factual errors.

  239. Malfleur at 14:18

    I agree, Mr Robinson sounds angry, reasoned and sensible. He articulates what most of my friends, colleagues and neighbours feel. It is odd that, as PfM’s Mr Clegg quote demonstrates, there is a very clear opinion amongst the citizens yet the political leaders are completely ignoring this and continue with this quite frankly embarrassing appeasement of those who clearly hate our way of life. Is this further evidence for your Q**ar theory?
    Interestingly, in my opinion, Mr Robinson says nothing to incite violence c.f. many “Muslim clerics”. Yet he is demonised by the media: a most illogical position that is hard to explain unless one cites bias?

  240. Frank P at 19:08

    Well said Frank: your post better sums-up the position than mine did.

    May I make one plea please and it may seem trivial at such a tragic time, but I think of this young man as a soldier of the British Army and I think it is appropriate to honour him as such. Britain means a great deal to me and I take great pride in my time served therein.

    Apologies Frank if this seems petty and I mean no offence.

  242. Clegg doesn’t even quote the Koran correctly. It says, in its context…

    For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah’s Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.

    Firstly we see that this plesant idea of killing one person being the same as killing all does not apply to those who are being killed for manslaughter or for CORRUPTION. Now what is this corruption? The second part explains. It is those who have rejected the messengers of Allah and become prodigals. And it is those who make war on Islam and spread corruption. So Secondly, it is OK to kill people if they have rejected the messengers of Islam and strive against Islam, which is to spread corruption.

    In such a case, and this major exception includes most of us, it is quite permissible to kill us. And there is even a useful list of how we should be killed, or be mutilated.

    Does Clegg know this? I can’t help but think that he does. He has chosen to quote from the Koran by deliberately missing out that which matters most.

  243. The disconnect was never clearer. The ruling elites mouth meaningless platitudes and homilies, while to the rest of us, seething and angry, comments are closed.

  244. comments are not closed at my work.
    Think this whole episode will be a major vote winner for UKIP from what I hear.

  246. I had to stop watching HIGNFY a couple of years ago. I just felt that it has been subverted into a comfortable, left-leaning, un-funny half-hour I could spend better.

  248. The enemy is Islam – in all its forms – covert or actively bellicose and murderously violent.

    As those who have read my posts over the past decade know I am against state sponsored execution, except in self-defence or WAR … I am therefor disappointed that the police marksmen failed to kill the enemy outright. Bad luck guys – a coup de grace should have been administered IPPC notwithstanding. It it time for removal of kid gloves. War is war. If these savages declare war then they should suffer the consequences of it.

    Archie Cuntsbury’s ecumenical outreach today was self-serving and inappropriate. Despite their hypocritical protestations, every Muslim cleric bears some responsibility for the murderous acts of the Nigerian butchers. If ‘Christianity’ requires this act of Dhimmitude, it also bears some culpability. Cowardice feeds the enemy. The enemy is the cult of Islam. Ecrasez l’infame!

  249. Frank P – May 24th, 2013 – 19:08

    “…sanctimonious blether…platitudes…the fat fool Pickles today…deeply insulting to the intelligence of English patriots past and present and a treasonous slur on the memory of Drummer Rigby…Arse-licking the Mullahs….and swallowing their taqiyya was disgusting…”

    As good a summation as any I’ve read, Frank P. The schism between the oligarchs and the increasingly disaffected numbers of loons schism will grow exponentially with their continued outpourings of such fecal verbiage.

  250. The Archbishop of Canterbury does not represent Christianity. Though I am sure he is a probably a Christian.

    The enemy is also socialism which is in a mutually beneficial embrace. We must not act as though Islam alone was our main problem. We didn’t get where we are today because of Islam but because of Socialism. And Socialism will remain with us if we deal only with Islam.

  252. Two men on a plane travelling from Pakistan to the UK tried to break into the cockpit in the last 10 minutes of the flight. They have been arrested and taken away. It is difficult not to leap to various conclusions.

  253. I was addressing the events of the last 48 hours. The unholy alliance between Islamic jihad and socialism has been the subject of much previous commentary by myself and many others here. We need no reminders of that phenomenon. The point I was making is that when Christians embrace Muslim clerics following an outrage such as the Woolwich atrocity, they are complicit. Their assertions are blatant hypocrisy – and insulting. They are pissing up each others’ backs and forecasting rain. BTW – Christianity is not short of socialist collaborators? Each requires its disciples and share unpleasant prerequisites of submissive ‘belief’. You can’t lay-off this rap – religion carried to superstitious excess is at the root of this and much murderous history – long before Marx upped the ante.

  254. Over six million third world migrants have arrived in a bankrupt, chaotic Britain since 1997. The country is a powder keg and the horrific slaughter of an innocent man is simply another fuse set alight and burning
    The fearful, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nick Clegg and others may cajole and dissemble as eloquently as they wish, but as one murderous, anarchic event follows another and nothing is done they cannot prevent our accelerating decline into violent religious, ethnic balkanisation and ultimately widespread bloodshed.

    Politicians, their consultants and apologists say that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unsupported assertion may just be true, it is irrelevant, a puff, deception, meant to make us feel better and diminish the spectre of blood covered jihadist butchers rampaging across the face of civilisation in the name of Islam.

    But the fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history, who march, who wage countless wars, who systematically slaughter Christians and tribes across Africa and are gradually taking over the continent in a bloody wave, raping, bombing, beheading, honour killing.
    It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque, zealously preaching the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

    The undeniable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous. Stalin’s Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China ‘s huge population was peaceful as well, but Mao’s Communists managed to kill 70 million people.

    The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And in Rwanda could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?

    History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our knowledge and powers of reason, we miss the obvious: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because they will wake up one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world has begun.

    And in this world, God help Britain, for its hapless and complaisant politicians will not.

  255. Later reports deny that their was any attempt to breach the cockpit of the Paki aircraft.

    It was a common disturbance and the authorities applied the CYA principal given the current terrorist activity. Fair enough, but remember the ‘cry wolf’ fable.

  256. It is believed a passenger on the flight allegedly threatened to blow up the plane after other passengers tried to intervene in a row he was embroiled in.

    Murtaza Ali Shah, a journalist, said he had spoken to a friend on board the plane, Fakhir Iqbal, a political activist, who was sitting behind the man who made the threat.

    Mr Shah said his friend told him: “Two guys started a row with a girl and lots of other people.

    “Some people tried to calm them and asked them not to be rowdy and abusive.

    “Fakhir told them to calm down.

    “They said ‘don’t bloody speak to us or we will blow up the plane’.

    “The crew came and spoke to them and they were openly threatening the staff.

    “Fakhir went to other crew members and told them they were making threats.”

  258. Baron – May 24th 9.28.
    Thank you for your clever and amusing post. It was appreciated as it served as balm and light relief from the other necessarily serious and depressing news items under discussion today.

  259. PfM 24 May @ 18:58 and 19:01

    Peter, I think there isn’t much point in our getting into a dispute about exactly what what Clear Memories comments actually meant, though I think that in general he and I are very much of the same mind.

    But I am rather disturbed by your writing that you – “… do not see how Islam can be banned. If Islam is to be banned merely as an idea then anything can be banned. And will be.”

    That may well be my fault for being less than precise when I wrote that Islam should be prohibited (i.e. banned) in Britain. I do not mean that the mere idea of Islam should be banned “as an idea”. I mean that Islam should have no presence in Britain in sense that no-one who holds himself out to be a Muslim or who preaches Islam should be allowed to live permanently in Britain – or even to visit, unless he keeps a low profile while in Britain and does not try to act as a missionary for Islam.
    It certainly would not and does not follow that “anything can be banned and will be.” I’m not clear on the state of British law at present, but I feel reasonably sure a good many activities are already banned – remember for example how quickly even a decent man like Geert Wilders was not allowed in. That of course was caused by Political Correctness, but I do not see how banning Islam should have the effect of encouraging the growth of the cancer of Political Correctness.

    The last thing in your comments that I find mystifying is where you write – “Personally I see Islam as a major threat to the UK but not the greatest. It can be reduced to minimal levels by deportation and serious restrictions. But the real threat would continue apace if that was all that happened.”

    I certainly view Islam as a major threat, but if as you say it is not the greatest one, then what is the greatest one? The only threat that I can think of that rivals Islam is Political Correctness. If that is also what you believe, then we are at least ad idem on something.

    Your assertion that the threat of Islam “…can be reduced to minimal levels by deportation and serious restrictions.” very much disturbs me because I am not persuaded that “minimal levels” of the threat of Islam can ever be maintained. But then you add that “….the real threat would continue apace if that was all that happened.” I agree with that – of course they will continue apace, but it seems to me to be inconsistent with your advocacy of imposing ‘minimal levels’. I just can’t grasp exactly where you stand.

  260. Frank P

    Reading about the several women who intervened in one way or another even as the events in Woolwich were being played out, reminded me of what you wrote some months ago about Sir Robert Peel and the origins and status of the constabulary.

  261. Noa (22.26)

    Bravissimo!

    I’ll post that on to Nigel Farage, suggesting that you are earmarked as Foreign Sec in his future administration. 🙂

  262. The real threat to us is and always has been atheistic socialism. It is happy to use Islam to destroy our Christian heritage and Christian based society.

    I can easily imagine Cameron deporting all Muslims if he thought it was absolutely necessary to retain power. But we would not be safe. We would still be dominated by a marxist ruling class, who have only sought to use Islamic immigration for their own ends.

    You make absolute statements and then qualify them so they say nothing more than I have said. You say that Islam should have no presence in the UK (and why should a Government not determine that there should be no UKIP in the country, or no criticism of the Government once you give them that power – they would love it) and then you say that it can be present if Muslims keep a low profile and are not missionaries for Islam.

    So you do think that Islam should be able to continue in the UK but under restrictions. That is exactly what I said. The idea that a reduced and restricted Islamic presence would retain the same threat is not reasonable. If we take an example. If there was only one Muslim in the UK and he was monitored so that he was not able to engage in anti-democratic and anti-English activities then what real threat would he pose? If there were 100 in the same situation then what threat would they pose? Not one I can see. But 2 million Muslims, of whom 100,000 positively support terrorism, and more than that, who are privileged so that they must not be criticised, must not be called to account, must not be expected to integrate, and must be allowed to dominate, that IS a problem. The threat of Islam has been shown clearly to be proportional to the size of the community in the wider population. In some places in England they are 90% of the population. But in a village where there is one Muslim then the threat is not the same at all.

    The issue is our liberty. We are being made dhimmi because we have given up our liberty. If all Muslims were removed we would be no less likely to become slaves. We may blame everyone and everything else. But we have allowed this to happen. We have allowed atheistic socialists to undermine and subvert all that made our nation great. They will remain in positions of power and authority if we allow ourselves to be fooled into thinking that Islam is the only, or even the greatest threat.

  263. In 1904, Trotsky wrote: “‘Lenin’s methods lead to this: the party organisation at first substitutes itself for the party as a whole; then the Central Committee substitutes itself for the organisation; and finally a single ‘dictator’ substitutes himself for the Central Committee…”.

    Is there a similar logic at work in the penetration of England by islam? The mosque substitutes itself for the muslim community as a whole; then local government dominated by muslims substitutes itself for the mosque; and finally the national government…?

  264. Noa – 22:26 ‘Islam is a Religion of Peace?’

    This is an example of British irony.

    Many moons ago, Muslims, when asked, said that Islam meant Peace. Later on it was discovered that it really meant Submission. So, it is now called ‘Religion of Peace’ in reference to this long standing ‘misunderstanding’.

  265. Malfleur (23.17)

    I think SRP would probably have been somewhat nonplussed by the events which unfolded this week, if he had been allowed a brief moment of time travel. However, after some reflection, I guess he would assert that his basic primary objectives still hold good. It just needs top cops with balls to implement them. There’s the rub.

  266. Noa, surely an additional problem is that we have been silent and have become irrelevant. We have allowed our enemies to subdue us. And we have allowed our enemies to welcome other enemies with ill intent. We are also culpable. We have not marched in our millions in the streets.

  267. It’s telling that after 8 years surveillance MI5 were unable to stop what happened. But within hours of the event the police were able to arrest two British men for comments on Twitter.

    Will 100,000 people march in the streets demanding that all changes be dropped?

  268. Until we can argue against the Koran, we are lost.

    We may need to change the Law to enable this to happen!

    We need a good reference on it, in English, explaining the contents and its implications. When we have it, we will be able to quote it without being dismissed as unknowledgeable. Its structure needs to be understood as well as its contents. At the moment we are only fighting against shadows. People can criticise any other publication as long it is done in a civilised manner.

  269. This article has plenty of evidence relating to the case. I hope the Police can follow up on the leads without the Diversity Officers getting in the way:

    The mother of a suspected Islamic terrorist who allegedly hacked a British soldier to death tried desperately to turn him away from extremism but “could not get through”, according to friends.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10079781/Woolwich-attack-Michael-Adebowales-mother-tried-to-prevent-radicalisation.html

  271. RobertC – 24 May 23:52

    A good approach to understanding Islam is to determining the correct dating of its various passages. That is vitally important because the Koran does not display them in chronological order but more in random order.

    Once that is done the principle that is applied by Islamic scholars is that where there are inconsistencies between passages, the passage that was created the more recently prevails over the one that is earlier. (That principle is not confined to Islam – it is also recognised in English law).

    This is all very lucidly explained in the video called FITNA. The results of applying the principle of the more recent passages over-riding earlier ones are very disturbing indeed – which is undoubtedly why such great efforts are made to suppress the distribution of FITNA.

    I recomment that you make every effort to obtain a copy of the full version.

  273. Oops! seems that National Review don’t allow ‘cut and paste’ from their articles. so pleqse read it all, anyway (the extract disappeared when I pressed ‘submit’).
    Don’t like that word, Peter. Can’t you relabel it ‘send’? 🙂

  274. PfM – 24 May 23:25

    I assume that your posting (at 23:25) is by way of reply to me.

    I agree entirely with your first two paragraphs.

    But I do have a problem with your third and fourth paragraphs. First because I fail to understand why a government determination that there must be no Muslim presence in the U.K. must automatically lead to a determination that there must be no presence of UKIP in the U.K. – the idea seems to me to be a red herring. Second you say that I qualify my belief that there must be no presence of Islam in the U.K. because I also say that it “can be present if it has a low profile.” That rather seriously misconstrues what I said, as does your sentence reading “So you do think that Islam should be able to continue in the UK but under restrictions.” Consequently I will try again to make my opinion clearer. I believe that Muslims should not be allowed to have permanent residence in the U.K. I do not think that it is inconsistent with that to make an exception for temporary Muslim VISITORS so long as they keep a low profile and refrain from attempting to be missionaries for Islam. I hope that makes my position reasonably clear?

    Your fourth paragraph also says that the threat of threat of Islam has been shown clearly to be proportional to the size of the community in the wider population. I agree with that – but only in the sense that we are considering IMMEDIATE threat.

    But there is another way of looking at it and on which I think we also need to concentrate. It is the fact that Islamic communities – no matter what their sizes – have, by reason of their retention of the Koran as the repository of absoluite truth, the eternal tendency to spawn some individuals who will inevitably turn to the use of terrorism and murder of non-Muslims and of Jews in particular.

    When it comes to your final (fifth) paragraph I agree with you entirely.

    I hope that we are not giving other posters the impression that we are indulging in Jesuitical type hair splitting……

  275. Herbert Thornton and Peter from Maidstone

    I think what your dialogue points up is that the government has no policy on this question. Neither it nor the opposition dare announce or even debate measures aimed at curbing the spread of islamic ideology and its criminal expression in Britain. Furthermore,even Nigel Farage has, so far as I can learn, merely “appealed for calm” as though his supporters and the public at large were about to storm through the streets with burning torches. Quite the opposite; calm, close relative of paralysis, seems to be the default position of Britons in these circumstances iconised by the lady in blue who in the now notorious filmed interview pulls her little trolley of shopping up behind the fulminating murderer with his blood stained hands and meat cleaver and on out of sight past the camera without a glance, a pause or a word. Unreal city!

    Indicative of this dereliction of the political class is that I am driven to observe that only Tommy Robinson’s EDL appears to have come anywhere near to formulating a coherent policy which is articulated by him in the interview linked above and also at http://www.newenglishreview.org/bloga.cfm/blog_id/49202/Tommy-Robinson-on-top-form – such as separation of the prison system into muslim and non-muslim following the precedent in the period of sectarian violence between Catholic and Protestant in Norther Ireland, etc., etc. Isn’t this the job of our politicians? What use are they? Throw the bums out!

    The position of the political class, for which purposes we seem also to have to include UKIP for the moment – Noa, please comment – is that no such policy is necessary and therefore no debate is necessary, and therefore keep quiet and shut up. This explains the patchy lock down of comments sections on certain blogs.

    Denial is not the best position from which to develop a cure for any of society’s ills.

  276. Alexsandr
    May 21st, 2013 – 09:42

    Obama needs to keep out of American politics too

    Obama is acting on the basis of a Marxist-Leninist animus against the middle class? Certainly, nobody can honestly argue that middle-class Americans as a whole have prospered under the Obama administration. The official unemployment rate has remained stubbornly high, while the percentage of adult Americans working has declined to historic lows. Meanwhile, during the Obama era, median family income has dropped several thousand dollars while the median net worth of Americans has dropped as much as 40%. Meanwhile, savers earn microscopic returns and effectively grant interest-free loans to the government as a result of the Federal Reserve’s zero-interest-rate policy.

    Such dismal data should be of no surprise to anyone who understands economics. Obama’s ideology is plainly Marxian, shown in his antipathy for entrepreneurs (“you didn’t build that”). As I have argued elsewhere, Obama’s economic policies have been those of a dedicated Marxist-Leninist. He has worked to advance the implementation of all ten planks in Marx’s “Communist Manifesto,” outlining how to impose socialism incrementally.

    As for Lenin’s fiendish plan to crush the middle class with taxes and inflation, Obama has increased taxes by over $6 trillion (I refer here to Obama’s deficits, which are taxes that will fall on future taxpayers) and the Federal Reserve inflationary dollar-creating policy (“quantitative easing”) that already is eating away at the purchasing power of the dollar while sowing the seeds of severe future inflation. Many Americans have been beguiled by Obama’s rhetoric about raising taxes on “the rich.” They overlook the mathematical fact that “the rich” (even as liberally defined by Obama) don’t have enough money to keep the Obama/progressive wealth redistribution game going, and that, sooner or later, the heaviest economic burden will have to fall on the middle class.

  277. re the banning of Islam and its potential to impact upon other liberties. It is my belief that, if the population of the UK speak loudly and clearly, then Islam can be routed. And if that message is loud enough, then the politicians will be too afraid to seek to limit the freedoms of the majority

    Perhaps the immediate answer is to reciprocate Saudi Arabian laws for Christians with immediate effect.

    This would immediately close all mosques and make possession of the Koran an offence. Practicing Islam, other than in one’s private home and only with immediate family, would also be an offence. Entry into the UK for all Muslims be subject to visa which would stipulate those areas where they would not be allowed to travel. Clearly, none of their religious paraphernalia could accompany them – no prayer mats, Korans etc.

    Any public espousal of Islam would be an offence. Objecting to the social mores, beliefs and attitudes of the UK would be an offence. Finally, they would be required at all times to dress in a manner not offensive to the host population and our youth be permitted to physically admonish those who offend.

    You can be assured that the past few days have got the attention of Australia. The relatively small Islamic population here have still not recovered their arrogance yet from their first (and last) attempt to flex their muscles. (see Cremorne riots – but basically, the local white youths responded to Islamic aggression in kind. It demonstrates clearly the only message these demented heathens understand – force).

    My accent marks me out for two simple responses – a genuine pity and a ‘why do you Poms put up with it?’ attitude. I find myself slightly humbled by the former and unable to answer the latter.

    PfM, Herbert and myself can pontificate and disagree all we like, it will be the politicians that finally resolve the situation. But my real worry is that, as always, they will lag so far behind public opinion that the population might respond. I commented on the ability of Plod to jump on the EDL but continually turn a blind eye to hate speech from Muslims and, like you, I am disgusted they can find time to read Twitter and harass no doubt not unreasonable (in the circumstances) anger.

    The Muslims have already chased Plod away once (see You Tube). The BNP and the EDL are gathering their forces, the football has finished. I wonder how fast the average brain-washed flat foot can actually run?

  278. Verity

    Samantha Cameron has always been a fashion risk taker — one of the few women who didn’t wear a hat to the royal wedding. So did she deliberately show off her bra at the White House? Her Alessandra Rich blue lace gown had a demure panel in front but a sheer back, revealing what looked like a matching blue bra. Hip? Sexy? Inappropriate for a formal state event? Your call.

    On some other official visits, protocol has required Michelle Obama to stand beside some other visiting spouse, with the hostess a full foot taller and a generation younger than her guest. This time, equality is evident.

    Both the first lady and her British guest, Samantha Cameron, wore long gowns. Obama’s was a deep teal, open-necked, floor-length number by British-born Marchesa designer Georgina Chapman, who attended with her husband, Harvey Weinstein. And Cameron covered her shoulders and neck in a sparkly, patterned, belted dress also deeply blue, by the Italian-born and London-based Alessandra Rich.

    “Very pretty!” the president admired, as Cameron stepped from limo to North Portico stairs. And to Prime Minister David Cameron, he observed: “They look better than us.” The Briton agreed with the smart combined assessment.

  279. Malfleur – 08:01 ‘Tommy Robinson’s interview’

    The dysfunctional nature of our prisons as described in the interview is truly shocking!

  280. Noa, May 24th, 2013 – 22:26

    That was excellent.

    After the stock glib responses from the politicians and media to the horrific step change in terror, one could be forgiven for thinking they must either be fools or quislings.

  281. EC, they are surely both fools and quislings.

    I read Odone’s interview with Warsi and not once was she asked about passages in the Koran calling for the death of various peoples. Not once was she asked about the murder of ‘apostates’. Not once was she ‘quizzed’ about the routine murder of Christians around the world by Muslims. It was an entirely soft interview as if it should have been labelled ‘Advertising Feature’ in a magazine.

  282. J.J.Burns ,25 May at 08.08. Mrs.Obama and Mrs.Cameron have a lot in common.Mrs.Obama’s family were slaves and Mrs. Cameron’s family were slave-owners.

  283. RobertC, May 24th, 2013 – 23:33

    Many moons ago, Muslims, when asked, said that Islam meant Peace. Later on it was discovered that it really meant Submission. So, it is now called ‘Religion of Peace’ in reference to this long standing ‘misunderstanding’.

    Taqiyya in action! Although … there’s is nothing quite so peaceful as being dead!

    ROP? Westminster is truly a political asylum if they think that. It’s not just the infidels. In the rest of the world muslims, sunnis, shi-ites etc.etc. , have been murdering each other on a daily basis in the name of Islam. It’s not just the recent past, it’s been happening for centuries.

    Another thing, am I mistaken in thinking that CMD and Al o’B have actively been supporting the jihadists in Libya and Syria?

  284. EC – 10:08 ‘Taqiyya in action!’
    True! I think we also forget that the irony needs to be understood to be effective.

  285. Radford NG – 10:04
    I heard that BO’s family were, coming from Kenya, possibly slave-owners themselves.

  288. Peter from Maidstone@May 24th, 2013 – 23:25

    ‘The real threat to us is and always has been atheistic socialism. It is happy to use Islam to destroy our Christian heritage and Christian based society. ‘

    Rubbish!

    The amount of trouble caused by god botherers of different hues is massive. It is the cause of most differencies between cultures.
    Religion should butt out of where is it not needed. It should not be part of the state, including schools.
    I believe that most of the problems in Ulster over the last decades was caused by segregated schools. Catholic kids myst have thought protestant ones had 2 heads cos they never met them.

    This of course goes for other countries including Israel, Egypt, Itan etc etc.

  289. Alexsandr, look around you. The problems we face are not caused by Christians. Have they deceived you so easily? What do you think our culture is based on? 100 million people were killed in the last century by atheistic socialism. How many do you estimate were killed by any sort of depraved view of Christianity. The issues in Ireland were not religious. Many of the early Nationalists were Protestant. The IRA is a marxist organisation. It is not Catholic. Indeed I know many Protestants and Catholics from Northren Ieeland, real Christians, who have been committed to the cause of peace throughout the troubles.

    What has caused the benefit culture? Socialism.

    What has allowed unlimited immigration? Socialism

    What has priviliged Islam for various reasons? Socialism

    What has continually increased the size and scope of the state? Socialism

    Who wants to introduce greater surveillance and monitoring of all citizens? Socialism

    Who believes that the political class should ‘lead beyond authority’? Socialism

    You are entitled to your opinion, but it seems without any weight behind it. If you think that Islam is really about religion your are also wrong. And you have forgotten all that Christianity has provided for our nation. Why should my children not go to a school of my choice? Why should Christians not be represented in a Christian country?

    Why is it that at the slightest opportunity people seem willing to leap into a totalitarianism that is no better than that offered by Islam.

    If you don’t realise that the real threat is atheistic socialism then you are going to be fighting the wrong enemy. And if you haven’t realised that our socialist political class is using Islam then you will continue to be deceived.

  290. Clear Memories
    May 25th, 2013 – 08:07
    Some good points. Personally, I’d like to herd all the barbarians out of their homes, mosques, wherever and drive them all to the white cliffs of Dover. Chuck the bloody lot over at high tide, and they can find the reward of 72 virgins or whatever, and we can all be happy.

  292. Peter from Maidstone@May 25th, 2013 – 11:52

    Hey Peter. I am not advocating socialism. Atheism does not have a political dimension. One can be an atheist free marketeer.

    Indeed it seems many Christians seem to advocate a big state. Look how the CofE rails against benefit cuts as being non christian.

    Your children can go to a Christian school if you wish. Just don’t expect the rest of us to pay for it.

  293. Alexsandr, you have not read my posts. I said that atheistic socialism is the great threat. I never mentioned atheists. But of course atheism has a political dimension. It cannot help but affect politics if a person believes that he has only 70 years to live and is simply a slightly more intelligent animal than others.

    In fact I do pay for my children’s school. Perhaps you are unaware that Christians pay taxes? And that it was Christians who built and established many of the schools that Muslims now attend. And it was Christians who established many of the first hospitals. Christians who formed many of the first organised teams of midwives and health visitors. And it was Christians who first gave support to the unemployed and the sick.

    That doesn’t mean Christianity is true, but if you have a dream of a Britain without Christianity or any Christian influence then you are no sort of conservative.

  294. Many moons ago, Muslims, when asked, said that Islam meant Peace. Later on it was discovered that it really meant Submission. So, it is now called ‘Religion of Peace’ in reference to this long standing ‘misunderstanding’.

    So why EC is almost every poster here hell bent on trashing the religion?

  295. And still RACISM runs rampant;tearing apart the world of golf.A millionaire Spainard causes great hurt to a millionaire adulterer[Tiger Woods] by offering him fried chicken,then the CEO of the Tour makes it worse by refering to coloured athletes.Great distress all around;cries of Racism;much hurt and anger;demands for Zero Tolerance.Apologies offered.The whole horrible saga at BBC Sport/Golf/Garcia’s remarks……zero tolerance:along with c.800 Postings.[Surprized they printed my Posting;`He should have offered him Gumbo`.]

  296. Peter from Maidstone
    Peter, we have had this discussion before. Why should I, as a Jewish woman, who has suffered persecution and prejudice feel one iota of sympathy for the barbarians? Jews, with all the faults the human species is prey to, have not behaved like the moslems in the lands of the Diaspora. Do Jewish people go around dictating to the rest of the population what do eat, how to pray, how to live? If anything, the Anglo-Jewish community is too polite, bending over backwards not to cause offense. I am not a racist the barbians are, it is written in their crappy koran that the infidel must die. They conisder you, Peter, despite your so-decent fair attitude, just as much an infidel as me. Think about it!

  297. Anne, you suggested that all Muslims should be pushed off a cliff. I know what they think of me. I know how they treat the members of my Church. But pushing them ALL off a cliff? Should we sink to the level of barbarians? What sort of society do we preserve if we act like that. I am not being fair. I am trying to be English. If I support acting like a barbarian then I cease to be Christian and to be English. I have made plenty of proposals. But I refuse to countenance genocide simply because that is what others intend for us.

  298. Peter from Maidstone
    Peter, I respect your opinion, but it is yours, not mine. Life is not fair, but we must try what we can do to preserve decency. It’s rather like the bombing of Dresden and Bomber Harris. Innocent Germans were killed, women and children, but it certainly helped to bring World War II to an end. We are living in a war situation, led by a Vichy Quisling government, and they get away with their evil because of the decency of the average person.
    .

  299. Anne, I can never agree that killing 3 million people, as you seem to propose, especially when the vast majority have not committed any crime, is ever justified. We are in an ideological war situation. There are not yet massed armies approaching which would justify genocidal actions. Frankly I find the mere suggestion of such mass murder to be entirely depressing. I would happily see Muslims repatriated to Pakistan and Bangladesh but I would stand in front of any Muslim family and defend them if they were going to be murdered.

  300. Peter from Maidstone@May 25th, 2013 – 12:48

    I dont want genocide. I just want the ones who live here to abide by our laws.

    And allow themselves to be polices and not create no-go areas.

    and not take offence at the slightest provocation. Christianity has learned to turn the other cheek and has survived. Why cant Islam do the same in a free society. Too dammed excitable.

  301. I’m now going out to enjoy the rare sunshine on this Bank Holiday weekend. If anybody want to, I’m willing to continue this existential conversation.

  302. I think it is correct to say that the Official IRA was/is Marxist; but that the Provisional IRA received/receives the support of the Roman Catholic Church.

  304. My recollection was that the protestant unionists, who ran the Stormont government oppressed the catholic minority, and that start of the troubles were the civil rights marches organised by NICRA.

    So while the organisations on both sides of the divide had a political dimension, the divide was basically sectarian

    Trouble is most of these divides have their roots deep in history. I bet the Islamists have a grievence against the crusades!

  305. The significant question is perhaps why was a “Provisional” IRA necessary?

  306. P f M :John Paul II said;`I beg you on my knees`to stop the killing.The Cardinal Arch-Bishop of New York literally turned his back when the Irish Brigade of the NYPD went passed in the St. Patrick’s day parade.But many Irish priests still gave aid and comfort to the Provos seeing it as doing down the Prots.against whom they were/are still fighting a religious war.

  307. Malfleur at 14.07:About 1973 the hard minded Marxist men leading the IRA analysed the situation and came to the conclusion that the Armed Struggle no longer had any place in the Irish social/political situation.They disbanded the IRA and formed themselves into the Irish Workers Party……The hot-headed young Maoists did not accept this and formed themselves into the Provisional Command of the IRA to continue Armed Struggle.

  308. Malfleur@May 25th, 2013 – 14:07

    A feature of the IRA and Sinn Fein has been the break away groups. Theprovos were first. The trend has been as the main group became more main stream and ‘respectable’ then a break away group would form to maintain the radicalism. The real ira was similar.

  309. In the context of the debate above, Standpoint magazine is again a lighthouse in the rocky seas to be navigated by those wishing to set a conservative course here:

    http://www.josephloconte.com/commentary/standpoint-constitutional-ignoramus/

    Mr Loconte kicks back in his May 1st review of “Why Tolerate Religion”, a book by a Chicago philosopher and legal scholar, Brian Leiter, critical of the privileged status of religion in the American constitutional and kicks back in terms which should have us reflecting on our own constitutional arrangements and their roots in the religious history of our islands.

    Mr. Loconte writes in part:

    “The author seems astonishingly unaware of the Judeo-Christian intellectual tradition and its contribution to the foundations of liberal democracy. The scientific revolution, the concept of human dignity, an ethos of compassion for the poor, the political ideals of equal rights and government by consent — all of these developments are unthinkable without the influence of the Judeo-Christian tradition in the West.”

    …and

    “… in a book on the relationship of Church and State, there is no treatment of James Madison and his signal contribution to the legal architecture governing these two realms — the First Amendment — which Leiter hopes to reconstruct. Ever mindful of the dangers of an oppressive state, Madison insisted upon the civic freedom of every individual to live out his obligations to the Creator. As he wrote in Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments (1785):

    “It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe.”

    By elevating our spiritual and moral obligations to God above all others, Madison helped to enshrine the unique status of religion in America’s legal regime. The Founders viewed religious liberty as the bedrock of civic and political freedom; as In the context of the debate above, such, the state should think long and hard before it curtailed religious expression. As the social thinker Os Guinness has written, this principle has functioned as an “article of peace” by which the United States has accommodated its religious diversity while avoiding sectarian strife and preserving freedom. All of this history — all of the social and political progress made possible by religion’s privileged place in the public square — is ignored by Leiter’s cold rationalism…”.

  311. Alexsandr

    Yes, but WHY was a break-away thought necessary? Was it not because it was recognized that the movement would not obtain the vital support of the Roman Catholic Church while it remained expressed through a marxist vehicle?

  313. Malfleur, I dont think the Provos looked to gain the support of the Church. They are still on the far left. They didn’t want to stop fighting, that’s all. They wanted to be the big men. I shall ask those Catholic Archbishops I know what their opinion of the PIRA was and is.

  314. Could John Jefferson Burns’s recent reappearance be in any way connected with reports of Telemachus being rendered homeless at the other place? The tactics (@12:26) of quoting without attribution, conflation and redundant questions etc. etc. are all spookily reminiscent of our old chum(p).

    In order to answer to his question I can do no better than refer him to the full text of the response made by my learned friend Mr. Car Park on May 20th, 13:47.
    I thank you.

  315. Peter from Maidstone@May 25th, 2013 – 14:58

    And they were right. They have got their terrorists in the heart of the NI government. Mcguinnes and Adams. Both scum.

  316. Peter

    The Socialists may have brought the pet snake into the room, but it is now fast growing python and will devour them as well as us.

  317. Archie Cuntsbury quote (DTel):

    “This is very much a time for communities to come together.”

    After a short session of mutual masturbation, no doubt, wankers that they all are.

  318. Absolutely extraordinary events over at the Telegraph.

    Comment thread after comment thread is being removed, or not even opened at all. I reproduce some reader comments here from this Leader column piece before they are removed (they don’t seem to have any new comments on there since yesterday, so they’ve probably stopped new comments going on there).

    Everyone is gathering there to comment because there is nowhere else they can comment:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/10076087/A-responsible-internet.html#disqus_thread

    orangepekoe Yesterday 03:32 PM

    MSM while you lot hide behind your silence and your decision to cancel, delete and ban comments by your readers and viewers the ordinary man, woman and child in the street is being racially and religiously selected for attack, rape, beatings, branding like cattle, sold like slaves, murdered and even – even butchered in a street in London outside a school!

    Cowards!
    Betrayers!

    You are complicit in these crimes by hiding you heads in the sand and stopping us from doing what any ordinary person would do and say “stop! this is wrong!”.

    Who can anyone turn to for protection?
    Who can anyone turn to for justice?

    God Almighty how much lower will we sink before the establishment and the MSM grow a pair and take some responsibility and report the news correctly and fully?

    We have come to expect the BBC to be left to spew out their Left wing propaganda and distort the truth because our politicians are so useless and fearful they won’t do the right thing by closing it down and stop taking money from people under threat but I cannot express strongly enough how utterly furious I am that the DT is cowering in its ivory tower while the British people – whose dads and granddads fought in world wars to save democracy and freedom – are silenced by the enemy within.

    I am totally disgusted and frustrated at the deleting of all our comments to supplicate a community that is a determined enemy of democracy and attacks us right, left and centre – butchering and abusing.

    What the hell is wrong with you people????

    Why don’t you just print comics and sport because that is what you relegate YOURSELVES to when you deliberately cower from the truth of the news and close the door to legitimate comments.

    You are inviting anger to go to the streets you realise don’t you?

    No responsible politicians – just PR statements and insincere statements from groups we know hate us.

    No responsible MSM – they close us out and close us down.

    What in the name of heaven do you expect of us in the face of such treachery and savagery and even our children are abandoned to this multicultural lie? What is wrong with you?

    prejudiced Yesterday 11:45 AM

    350 comments on today’s letter pages also removed.

    60rocker Yesterday 11:48 AM

    Wonder how long before we get the knock in the middle of the night?

    modusop Yesterday 03:38 PM

    It will not be that long – we already have raids at 5am by as many as 40 policemen and a cohort of social workers to steal children for forced adoptions. There have been several of these over past 2 years; oddly the kids taken are from middle class parent(s) who have been wrongly accused in family courts.

    Personally I think some of these stolen kids are being taken for paedophiles in high places.

    Check out Charlie Bookers [sic – it’s Christopher Booker] columns on here

  319. Notice who the politicians are kicking too.

    Not the Islamic extremists, but us.

    They’re using the crisis as a power grab against us.

    This is being used a pretext for reintroducing Theresa May’s Snooper’s Charter.

    But these killers knew not to use digital communications for the very reason that all such communications are already spied on.

    All Theresa May’s Snooper’s Charter does is enshrine it in law – and stop civil actions years down the line against the government for spying on the public because the spying is unlawful (they’re spying now).

    Such a bill would have been useless against these killers – they have adapted to the idea of not using traceable digital communications and become lone wolves.

    Moreover, the technology is outstripping the Snooper’s Charter:

    “The ‘Snooper’s Charter’ is a threat to civil liberties, which is (as Nick Cohen argued in a recent magazine piece) bad enough.

    “But it’s also obsolete, which is worse. Secure digital encryption is a fact of life; governments, large businesses and a growing number of the super-rich are already using it on top-end mobile phones, email networks and other devices. (See the new Vertu phone for a working example.)

    “The technological expertise will proliferate; and the benefits will soon be available in a shop near you.

    “You will be able to buy communications products with inbuilt software that ensures what you send, say or write is untappable, unhackable and inaudible to the outside world, providing that the other party has the same settings.”

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/05/revive-the-snoopers-charter-its-already-obsolete/

    So why do John Reid, Lord Carlisle and so many others want the Snooper’s Charter?

    To spy on Joe Public.

    To make sure that we’re not ‘Islamophobic’ – that’s the sort of data that will be collected and stored.

    The terrorists proved this week that they have moved beyond being snared by digital bear traps.

    Once again, it’s us the politicians want to control – not the terrorists.

  321. Selina@May 25th, 2013 – 17:00

    Lord carlisle is a dangerous curtailer of civil liberties. He has set himself as a terrorism expert and all he ever recommends is more restrictions on the law abiding

    Why does anyone listed to the idiot?

  323. The other shocking aspect to this week is the level of co-ordination among Big Media to hide the truth and smear the EDL or other people.

    At some point in the 24 hours after the killing, the fact that this was a beheading was censored in all TV news and mainstream print media.

    Is that what they do in those wretched Cobra meetings?

    I know they do media managment and it was so co-ordinated.

    Then there was the crucial piece of video tape, which ITV owns, where the jihadist gives his speech.

    Crucially the first part of that was shown with no volume on ITV – immediately I knew the broadcaster up to no good.

    So it proved. In that speech, he cites The Koran.

    The papers all reproduced that speech but not the bit where he cites The Koran.

    And what of the EDL and so on? How much of this is MI5 plants using propaganda to create news stories to draw attention away from the wickedness of the UK government?

    Finally, I noticed a spate of articles saying this was nothing to do with Islam in the MSM (including The Telegraph).

    That seemed co-ordinated by Cameron and Cobra because the message was so consistent in every medium – and so disingenuous.

    Now, this next bit gets curioser and curiouser, as Alice would say.

    For I find one journalist challenging this shibboleth.

    But, wait. Her posts did not appear where I am usually alerted to them (here – last post dated 10 May):

    http://phillipsblog.dailymail.co.uk/?ico=debate^editors_choice

    Instead, I had to go here to find two articles:

    23 May 2013
    Denial is still a river in Londonistan
    (the hyperlink does not seem to work, so you may need to go to the website and find it manually):

    http://www.melaniephillips.com/untitled-resource

    And
    24 May 2013
    Stiff competition for Most Fatuous Reaction award

    http://www.melaniephillips.com/stiff-competition-for-most-fatuous-reaction-award

    My question is this. Was Paul Dacre told by Cobra ‘you are not to publish anything that implicates Islam directly’?

    Is that why these posts only appear where they do?

    I do not know.

    All I know is that there is something very fishy and co-ordinated about the MSM saying this has nothing to do with Islam.

  324. Large peaceful protest march in Newcastle by EDL this afternoon.Police say 1,500/EDL says 7,000…….EDL twitter also supports voting for UKIP.

  325. The IRA wanted to enter politics and not respond to the challenges of 1969 with force. Those who rejected politics and saw themselves in continuity with the 1916 revolutionaries left the IRA and formed the PIRA. Not because they were not Marxists but because the IRA was no longer a violent revolutionary force.

  326. Sorry EC! When I wrote my post of 17.24 I had not seen your earlier link to Melanie Phillips’ article.

    I just clicked on Frank P’s Gates of Vienna link and that guy notices exactly what I noticed – the level of Big Media co-ordination in saying this is nothing to do with Islam.

    It looks as though this propaganda is all being co-ordinated via Cobra, the ‘security’ services and mainstream media owners and editors.

    Never forget The Sun’s post-7/7 front-page story about the Queen’s rubber duck. Its then editor admitted later he published that on the front cover that week to divert public attention.

    Is there also some de facto bribery going on with all the Muslim group ‘condemnation’ (taqyya?) of the beheading?

    I only ask because there seem to be very rich rewards for Islamic groups the government approves of.

    The Quilliam organisation (whose top brass has been all over the telly this week) has already netted £1 million of taxpayer money.

    Who says giving them taxpayer money works?

    Quilliam does.

    Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?

    Is that what everyone of these Muslim groups is queueing up for by ‘condemning’ the attack?

    I honestly think the only result of this beheading will be more non-Muslims locked up for stitched-up thought crimes, more laws to spy on us all and a load of taxpayer money hurled at Muslim groups, Muslim scholars and so on, using the basis that this will ‘prevent’ terror.

    Just as with the ‘Prevent’ programme (ho, ho, ho) someone will be making bucks out of the taxpayer on the back of this beheading – just to add insult to injury.

  327. Alexsandr 25th, – 16:18

    “They have got their terrorists in the heart of the NI government. Mcguinnes and Adams. Both scum.”

    Agree with your argument, but last time I looked Adams was no longer a British MP. Still scum, though.

  328. Ostrich (occasionally)@May 25th, 2013 – 18:10

    thanks for the correction. I had forgotten he had packed in uk politics.

  329. The more one examines Big Media over the past week, the more it looks that the last time there was a Cobra rehearsal for a jihadist attack that the media coverage was all agreed on beforehand.

    Close, censor and collect names on MSM newspaper comment threads.

    Commission a spate of articles saying it is nothing to do with Islam.

    Have a group of Muslim ‘leaders’ ‘condemn’ the attack.

    And possibly give some of them a big taxpayer cheque afterwards under spin headlines of ‘anti-terror’ initiative?

    I cannot emphasise how suspicious I am about why those Melanie Phillips’ posts are not on an MSM site.

    Apart from a post about her new publishing venture recently, all her posts on that site are usually replicated in the Mail, the Jewish Chronicle, or another publication.

    She very rarely writes exclusively for her site, which is used mainly as a compendium for her various pieces of journalism.

    But on a subject that the public everywhere are talking about – there are two posts on successive days, not syndicated anywhere – and very oddly, not her Mail blog page.

    As Lady Bracknell might have said, with one it is unfortunate the MSM did not get to pick it up, but with two posts on such an important and much read-about subject, it is careless the MSM did not pick it up.

    What is going on?

  331. Selina @18:04

    Links to Melanie’s articles should be repeated as often as possible. :-))

    RobertC @17:08

    “Is there something in our water supply?”

    Definitely. Down our way, it tastes like bleach. The probably over chlorinate to mask the taste of all the other crap they are putting in it.

  332. Paddy O’Connell, in a trailer for his Radio 4 programme Broadcasting House tomorrow morning, tells us he’s going to look into how a “murder” in South London has led to days of “Islamophobic” attacks.

    Would even Pravda have been so bloody obvious?

  334. EC:
    Over here we tend to argue our point.
    We believe in the ability of man to debate without abuse. I think I was making a valid point. Since Boston we have seen a lot of intemperate comment about the Muslim religion. If you go down to the backwoods of Oklahoma you find rednecks who just got God who folks think would try to enforce their views with actions quite as appalling as we saw at the marathon.
    My Southern Baptist mother taught me some pretty firm home truths but always taught me that pride and intolerance would be my downfall.

  335. JJB

    There aren’t 50 states in the world controlled by Southern Baptists. There aren’t 15 to 20 million Southern Baptists who have immigrated to Europe in the last ten years. And even if there isn’t much on American TV in the evening, Southern Baptists aren’t breeding in my country 4 times more than what will soon be known as the “Native British”. It is still legal to criticise Southern Baptists but those who behead a British Soldier are protected from having their ethnicity, religion and colour of skin being even mentioned as pertinent to their outrage.

  336. IRISHBOY – 19:00 ‘French incident’

    “French daily Le Parisien cited police sources as saying the suspected attacker was a bearded man of North African origin about 30 years old, and was wearing an Arab-style garment under his jacket.”

    Arab-style is OK, but arab-appearance probably not. The BBC must do better!

    “Francois Hollande, the French president, said that “at the moment” no link was being made between the murder of Drummer Rigby but that “we must look at all the hypotheses”.”
    Cameron needs to have a word with him. Hollande really needs to be corrected. On no account must we connect the dots, or the whole edifice will come tumbling down!

  337. A more daring article in The Daily Mail about the French incident, and with the sixth day of riots in Sweden’s surely our Government, the MSM and the whole country must come clean with what is happening in multicultural Europe. It also needs a plan that does not include continuing to tell us lies upon lies and that up is down.

    Regaining our Freedom of Speech would help!

    French anti-terror soldier has throat slashed in Paris by ‘jihab-wearing maniac of North African origin in Woolwich copycat attack’
    President Francois Hollande to investigate the ‘theories’ behind the incident
    Attack occurred in area packed with shoppers in busy area of Paris
    News of Woolwich murder has dominated French press since it happened
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330749/French-anti-terror-soldier-throat-slashed-jihab-wearing-maniac-North-African-origin-patrol-Paris.html#ixzz2UKhSogoq

    Riots in Sweden into sixth night
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3775287.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_05_25

  339. RobertC@May 25th, 2013 – 20:13

    BBC not reporting it on news website. But they have the Swedish riots now.

    Telegraph has french stabbing on internet site. No comments.

  340. Alexsandr, I too hope Mark Carney will stop QE.

    But I think he will do exactly the opposite and print to infinity.

    He is presented to us with acres of spin about his ‘good’ track record in Canada.

    Yet all he did was repeat what Gordon Brown did and got the whole place leveraged to the hilt.

    The most telling fact about Mark Carney is that he is ex-Goldman Sachs.

    That will be the key to his character.

    Across Europe, ex-Goldman Sachs bankers have been parachuted into government roles – Mario Monti as prime minister of Italy (ask yourself why is an ex-Goldman Sachs banker parachuted in to head a state?) or they have been parachuted into de facto government roles.

    The most obvious is Mario Draghi, governor of the European Central Bank (who is itching to print the euro and in a technical sense could be said to have done so already).

    It was always going to be difficult to parachute an ex-Goldman Sachs banker into the UK’s premiership.

    So they’ve parachuted one in the role of central bank governor. As senior a de facto government role as it is possible to get.

    Like Gordon Brown, he has left a pile of debt in Canada, making everyone debt slaves.

    I think we can expect this man to print, print, print like it’s going out of style.

    The Vampire Squid likes to have a tentacle everywhere.

  342. Interesting that media sources are citing: “140 anti-Muslim hate crimes have been reported since the murder on Drummer Rigby”.

    Do I believe that?

  344. RobertC

    Thank you for these updates, very informative.

    Just as a point of law: if I feel threatened by a person of “M****m appearance” may I preemptively retaliate?
    Or must I wait till my internal jugular vein is severed because to act any earlier would be “ra**st”?

  345. PfM

    Goodness knows but I suspect it will not take much to invoke it, especially if you look suspiciously indigenous?

  347. Forecast

    Some, politically correct activists in Britain and Human Rights Commissions in Canada are going to analyse all available technical magazines, books, and university courses, looking for any criticism of mechanisation.

    Then they will drop a hint to various Muslim organisations that the magazines, books and university lecturers are using the word in order to offend Muslims, and that there is an opportunity for both progressive people and Muslims to demand – and be awarded – substantial amounts of money as compensation for their hurt feelings.

  350. Ostrich (occasionally)

    Well said, I endorse your commendation of Irishboy: he has succinctly summarised the issue. The Ulster-Scots in the US have been the true founders, they’d be most welcome in any society.

  351. Daily Mail headline EXCLUSIVE: ‘I will gag the hate clerics’: Cameron to launch new terror task force to bring an end to religious extremism

    If only he could think laterally!

    Why not remove the gag from the British public?

    You know it makes sense! (At least it won’t cause the C of E any problems!)

  356. After reading about its acquisition by Yahoo from David Karp in the FT this weekend, I have decided to give tumblr a go. I have avoided signing up for Facebook, despite its continual importunings. tumblr sounds more my thing and I need to try to stay a step ahead of my sons in the world of cool and of government authorities in the world of free speech: http://www.tumblr.com/‎

    If anything interesting develops or if it’s a dead loss, I will post here. Initially though someone already has my preferred user name and I can’t figure out how to start making things happen after signing up with an approximation. I am therefore going to be guided by http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Tumblr

  357. It seems that nobody on CHW wants to either argue or agree with me. Is it because I have outraged everybody, or does the following item shown by the BBC have any influence?
    n 85-year-old woman arrested outside Gillingham Mosque after allegedly hurling abuse at Muslims has been charged with a racially aggravated public order offence.

    The pensioner, of Port Rise, Chatham, was handcuffed and taken away in a van by officers after trouble flared as worshippers left Friday prayers,
    Things are truly getting bad, and so I rest my case. Let’s enjoy the sunshine while we may, and I don’t mean just the weather. 😉

  358. AWK1 – (26 May 03:32) –

    The lackadaisical way the police (not to mention the BBC, many politicians, and the rest of the Establishment and Media) react to crimes committed by Muslims in the name of Islam and comparing that with Police eagerness to prosecute native British people who are brave enough to say anything unfavourable about Islam, I’m beginning to suspect that the whole Establishment is so infected with Political Correctness Disease that some are actually clinically insane and that some are happy to be paid off.

    See too the link in my posting (26 May 01:55).

  359. This was UKIP’s formal statement on Woolwich by Nigel Farage. Does anyone think that he rose to the moment?

    “We are all left horrified by this appalling attack on the peaceful streets of London, and our thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the young man who was killed and those who were affected. I hope and believe that this is an isolated incident and appeal for calm amongst all our communities.”

  360. This was the New Labour Party’s formal statement on Woolwich by Ed Milliband. Does anyone think that he rose to the moment?

    “This was an appalling and horrific murder and all of my condolences are with the families and friends of the victim, and indeed with our troops because they serve incredibly bravely all around the world and they’ve seen one of their own murdered in an act of complete cowardice.

    “There are people who try to divide us with acts like this. They’ve tried it before in London and they’ve failed and they will always fail.

    “There will be people who try to use events like this to divide us and they will fail too.

    “They will fail because the British people are united across different faiths, different religions, different backgrounds, in their abhorrence of this and in values of decency and tolerance. That is the true character of the British people and that’s why this terror will lose and will fail.

    “We are a united country, not a divided country and anyone who tries to divide us will not succeed.”

  361. This was another formal statement on Woolwich. Does anyone think that it rose to the moment?

    “The terrible events in Woolwich today were a reminder of something very few are willing to accept: we are at war.

    Despite what Islamic extremists may claim, this war is not being waged against all Muslims.

    However they may feel about British foreign policy or perceived injustices towards Muslim peoples around the world, most British Muslims accept this simple fact.

    But many don’t. They see oppression where there is none and they respond not with reason or argument, but with violence.

    ‘Why?’ is a dangerous question, but it’s one we must ask.

    And where we find fault, criticisms must be made.

    We must criticise the Muslim community’s failure to deal with the extremists in their midst.

    We must criticise the self-segregation of certain sections of the Muslim community.

    And we must continue to campaign in favour of reform and against the continued spread of extremism.

    This is as much a war on Muslims as criticising government policy is an attack on democracy.

    It may not always be easy to define ‘the enemy’, but whoever or whatever it is we are fighting, one thing is certain: you can’t escape it.

    The soldier who was so savagely killed today did not ask to be involved in this war.

    Like the vast majority of the brave men and women who make up our armed forces, he would have been motivated by a sense of duty and a need to help defend his country and its people.

    His murderer’s actions are incomparable.

    He didn’t act in the defence of Islam, because it is not Islam that is under attack.

    George Bush had his war on terror, David Cameron speaks about ‘Islamist extremism’ and our newspapers do all they can to avoid using ‘the I word’.

    Not only are we not at war with Islam, but our politicians and the media are doing everything they can to make it clear that they don’t want to be at war with Islam.

    Unfortunately, none of this changes the sad fact that many of Islam’s followers are at war with us.

    In fact, Islam has been at war with its neighbours since its inception.

    The Qur’an itself tells us how Mohammed butchered those who stood in his way.

    This is why it makes so little sense to blame government policy, Western culture or even anti-extremism groups like the EDL for Islamic extremism.

    But within the next few days that’s exactly what we’ll read in the newspapers.

    Some people like to believe that if ‘the right people’ were in power Islamic extremism would simply go away.

    Some claim that being a soldier puts you in the line of fire, whether you are in uniform or not.

    And some believe that campaigning against Islamic extremism will just make matters worse.

    They’re all wrong.

    The victims deserve the truth.

    We don’t like to admit it, we don’t want it to be true – and that’s absolutely fine.

    In fact, it’s what sets us apart from the fanatics: from those who believe their religion teaches them to kill, oppress and terrorise.

    But it doesn’t change the simple fact: we are at war.

    We need to clamp down on extremist preachers and the mosques that continue to host them.

    We need to kick the extremists off our streets and out of our country.

    Quite simply, we need to cut out the cancer that is Islamic extremism.

    This is a war in defence of our culture, our rights, our freedom and our country.

    It’s about time our government began to act like it.

    Our thoughts and prayers are with the family.”

  364. Malfleur – 05:56 ‘Rising to occasion’

    From the continuing ‘white meat’ trials, with the latest in Oxford, to the beheading in Woolwich, London, to the continuing riots in Stockholm and the knife attack in Paris, I think we have had information overload, let alone horror overload over the last few days.

    It is because the politicians currently in office are starting at such a low altitude that we have expectations of them ‘rising to the occasion’. It is also why we have have these problems in the first place.

    Cameron has spectacularly risen to the occasion and uttered the most risible statement for some time, reported in my 23:26 post:

    Daily Mail headline EXCLUSIVE:
    ‘I will gag the hate clerics’: Cameron to launch new terror task force to bring an end to religious extremism

    A neutral statement, agreeable to all sensible people, and not requiring a fight with the ‘Uman Rights lawyers, was all that was needed in the initial vacuum, filling with shock and horror of what has happened on our streets.

    And how long will he be able to gag them? He will find it difficult to deport them.

    Even now, it appears that appeasement is the norm, so we will need to let the smoke clear so that we will be able to get a better ideas as to where our attention should focus.

  365. The next demonstration (supported by EDL) is at Downing St. 3pm tomorrow;Monday.

  366. Although they use computers,Q.E. is still Pancho Villa economics.In an old movie Villa takes Mexico City;is told there is no money in the National Bank;declares:”Print some!”……….Come to think of it;that’s what happened with Osbourne.

  367. Selina, Alexsandr, et al

    ” Like all other forms of wealth in the West, gold is being concentrated in fewer hands, while the elite shout “bear market, get out of gold.”

    The orchestrated decline in gold and silver prices is apparent from the fact that the demand for bullion in the physical market has increased while short sales in the paper market imply a flight from bullion….

    …If the orchestration is apparent to me, a person with no experience as a gold trader, it certainly must be apparent to federal regulators. But don’t expect any action from the Commodities Future Trading Corporation. It is headed by a former Goldman Sachs executive. ”

    http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_12/roberts052313.html

  368. Malfleur@May 26th, 2013 – 11:05

    I dont advocate buying gold as an alternative to normal investment, but as a way to hold assets for if the financial system goes into meltdown.

  371. Absolutely, Malfleur.

    Everything is now rigged and much of it has been for years. Libor was rigged for years.

    The oil price – it is alleged – was rigged for years, but given the all-clear by all the useless British ‘watchdogs’.

    The oil scenario has only come to light thanks to a European probe and then Cameron pretends he cares by saying he’ll criminalise it!

    He knows what goes on.

    And then has the gall to pretend to be on our side.

    Quoth Dave: “Oh, is something criminal going on in the City? Oh. I didn’t know. Honest. I’ll put a stop to my donors doing that. Promise!”

    Gold and silver – check, both being manipulated.

    Again and again you see a revolving door between regulators and ex-bankers.

    If these ex-bankers go from regulation back to banking they advise clients how to avoid paying their dues and when they go from banking to regulation, they seem to do nothing but hobble the system by limiting the parameters of what the institutions they regulate for can probe – and the pay-off is, just as with politicians leaving Parliament, a role a few years later somewhere in a bank or multi-national.

    You’re right about owning physical gold, Alexandr. That is the only stuff worth owning. I cannot believe the City palmed off all these junk gold ETFs on people.

    This is quite a good essay on the unholy marriage of bent business and bent politicians:

    http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/the-saturday-essay-the-inevitable-consequences-of-a-global-rush-from-reality/

  372. Selina@May 26th, 2013 – 12:11

    You dont have to put your savings in a bank. There are better places like Funding Circle and Zopa where you can make real returns instead of the pittance given by banks.

  373. John Jefferson Burns, May 25th, 2013 – 12:26

    “So why EC is almost every poster here hell bent on trashing the religion?”

    If you need to ask that question then you really haven’t been paying attention.
    (BTW The Boston bomber were “radicalised” at the Boston mosque)

    John Jefferson Burns, May 25th, 2013 – 19:27

    “My Southern Baptist mother taught me some pretty firm home truths but always taught me that pride and intolerance would be my downfall.”

    And so it will, John, so it will. She might have also added wilful ignorance and stupidity to the list. The gLiberal mindset is going to get us all killed.

    Supposing that she is not a figment of your imagination, your “Ma” would have undoubtedly have told you to “take you head out of your ass”, as you Americans might quaintly put it, and take a good look at what has been happening around the world over the last 20/30 years. The evidence is all out there, but will you look at it?

  375. EC/JJB (12:23)

    “as you Americans might quaintly put it, and take a good look at what has been happening around the world over the last 20/30 years. The evidence is all out there, but will you look at it?”

    Mind if I expand that time period to cover my own personal experience, which more or less began in 1934 (though during the first five or so years my knowledge was mainly based on the hearsay of my Dad, who seemed to think I understood, so I’ve tried ever since o live up to that compliment and catch up. I’m still trying). Looks like I never will, but I’m willing to pass on the baton to EC and other like thinkers on the intertubes, as I run out of steam.

  376. Can someone explain to me why the womens rights lot dont take against islam? I would have thought that the islam way of treating women would have been an easy target for them.

  377. Peter Cushing speaks of his dislike of leaving England and his love of the English country-side.QUOTE:”My dear wife says I bleed woad if I’m cut”.[Repeated;7pm Radio 4 Extra—Sun 26th.]

  378. Alexsandr – 12:37
    Because it has nothing to do with women’s rights and everything to do with attacking The West.

  379. The country is to get fewer stupid comments from the PM over the next few days, as he is taking a break, in Ibiza.

    Let’s hope he takes in how well the Euro Zone is doing.

  380. EC
    In my Sunday School there was a plaque
    “Racism is still with us. But it is up to us to prepare our children for what they have to meet, and, hopefully, we shall overcome.”
    Rosa Parks
    I have always decried racialism in all its forms whether cloaked as part of religion or other.
    I will not however be insulted by the word Liberal which I reserve for Obama, Hillary and other traitors to my country.
    As you long for 2015 to rid yourself of Cameron so we long for 2016 so we can get back to the GOP.
    A Reagan or Bush is worth a thousand Obamas.

  382. Whaddayamean “if you like” ??? I introduced Whittle to this forum (and by ‘this forum’ – I don’t mean the latest platform of it) long before you joined it, you cheeky cunt. Get some in!

    And don’t wind me up today, the sun is shining and it’s almost past the 10 degrees mark on my garden thermometer. It will soon be time to come out of hibernation.

    BTW it’s not ‘Bill Whittles PJTV’ he is just one of the apparatchiks – albeit one of it’s fieriest (and finest) presenters:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PJ_Media#Name_and_the_Killian_documents_controversy

  384. Selina
    May 26th, 2013 – 12:11

    The following article seems to sum up accurately the dire situation we are facing later this year:

    http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2013/05/impending-financial-collapse-the-grand-finale-here-is-what-is-about-to-happen-to-you-an-economic-love-story-or-fifty-shades-of-green-2523150.html

    Coincidentally, I heard it on the grapevine a couple of days ago that a very important announcement regarding new US currency is scheduled for Tuesday. I can hardly wait…

    Alexsandr
    May 26th, 2013 – 11:15

    Agreed.

  385. Why on earth does Lord Howard, as implied by the headline in the DT, believe that the Conservatives an Labour joining forces to pass the “Snoopers’ Charter” in the face of opposition from the Liberals is any kind of answer to the causes of the Woolwich outrage?

  386. With respect, (ahem!) to Dave’s gagging plans for extremists, why hasn’t anyone asked him if he would have the nerve to call those who he wishes to gag loonies, fruitcakes or closet racists? Or clowns for that matter? And if he did, would he have PC (sic) Plod arresting him for racially aggravated hate speech?

    I think there is now a wider realisation that apparently only whites can be “racist” and only whites can be guilty of “hate crime”, and this realisation is letting people see that such terms are only Marxist sticks used by the compassionate Left to wollop us for daring to think that individual freedom and equality before the law actually exist today.

    As for the snoopers charter, for goodness sake, if MI5 can’t spot a drug-fuelled fanatic after 8 years observation and a job interview they’re not worth the money or any extraordinary powers.

  387. Malfleur, that piece is spot on.

    There is lots of general market manipulation going on but two big things seem to be coming to a head this year.

    The Japanese prime minister is going for bust with his money printing programme, which may demolish Japanese sovereign bonds and unleash a tidal wave of doo doo over the rest of us as that’s such a big bond market.

    The second thing that will be the moment of truth is the German elections this autumn. Mario Draghi says he ‘might’ buy some soveriegn bonds from bust eurozone countries and this props up the bond market until after the German election and we find out if Merkel has got back in with enough votes to let her rubber stamp Draghi’s plan.

    But what if the German electorate don’t want to play ball and are sick of bailing others out?

    Shinzo Abe has no plans of stopping his Japanese money printing so that must bring Japan’s debt issue to a head this year one way or another.

    I hear thunder.

  388. Recently, somebody (I think it may have been Frank P. but I can’t find the posting) mentioned that he was contemplating using the Tumblr blog service. (I was reminded of it because this morning, I saw that whoever founded Tumblr has sold it to Google for $1.1 billion.)

    Anyway I accessed Tumbler to learn more about it, and discovered that to use the site people must agree to their terms. The terms turned out to be set out in a long document in convoluted legalese that included this –

    “Some of the Services require payment of fees (the “Paid Services,” including without limitation Premium Themes). All fees are stated in United States dollars. You shall pay all applicable fees, as described in the applicable Services, in connection with such Services, and any related taxes or additional charges.”

    I’m not without experience of interpreting legal documents, but having skimmed through the whole thing, I decided that (especially at 83) it would take so much time & effort to assess what I might be letting myself in for that I’d rather spend the time working in our garden.

  389. This is the problem Herbert.

    Companies set up on the net for free to lure custom and then once they think people have found them indispensable, it’s time to monetise by charging people or flogging their data to third parties.

    That’s the social media, FaceStink, newspaper, YouTube model.

    The other model is Amazon – use your size to crush all competition at first and then once they’re gone, push up your prices.

    I have given up writing on mainstream blogs like the Telegraph and so on. Either they delete the posts or they are just using you to boost their own readership.

    Who reads the Telegraph for the propaganda stories and spin merchant opinion pieces?

    I read it, but only for the joy of watching the public scythe down the cant of the Telegraph writers.

  390. If someone is going to blog about their thoughts and activities then it might be best to set up a personal website and install WordPress or something like that, and then have full control.

    I can always help people do that.

  391. Selina@May 26th, 2013 – 18:15

    Re your comments about the DT

    I think we are seeing the death throes of the fleet street press as they see their print circulations drop off a cliff. Then they scrabble for some of the revenue from the internet. Cant see some of the titlres surviving long.

  392. Selina & Malfleur

    That article is quite stunning. It resonates with me as I have been anxious about debt and QE for some time: hence I am trying to be rational about it and not just assume it’s correct.
    Do you feel it is accurate? Can anyone corroborate it?

    My only qualm about the article is the “conspiracy theory” element; I have to say I’m not immune to this form of thinking at times. The author is strongly inferring that there is a vaguely sinister group coordinating this effective takeover. What proof is there that this group exists? How are they coordinating all of their machinations in secret? Who is in this group?

    Don’t get me wrong, as I said, I fear that the author is correct but it is so controversial that I seek further evidence. I greatly appreciate you posting it.

  393. alexsandr 26 May 18:46 –

    I agree. It will be interesting to see how they raise revenue.

    If they they try to wring it from subscribers, readership will fall – and low readership will certainly discourage advertisers.

    For us that would be a mostly win-win situation – we would of course have to put up with the advertisements, but that’s how T.V. and radio pay their way, at least here in North America.

    In Britain of course there could be a different outcome – I imagine (with a shudder) that people like Cameron (not to mention politicians in the two other control freak parties) might hand over control of the Internet to the BBC so that everybody must pay a fee for the privilege of using it.

    It would be the Brainwashers’ delight.

  394. Irishboy (17:51)

    Exactly! Your last paragraph sums up the stupidity of the clamour for more powers. Eavesdropping is already widely available to the authorities and always has been; what’s needed is the will to deal with Islamic subversives who are blatantly inciting violence. The government and its apparatchiks are far more interested in silencing pissed-off patriots who are criticising their treacherous policies across the board. Alexander Boot takes Matthew Parris to task – see his latest post – Parris exhorts the authorities to round up Cameron’s detractors and have them shot ‘ pour encourager les autres ‘ (and pro bono le Cameroon’s, presumably).

  395. Frank P – 21.02

    With more than half the Tory MPs already having defied Dave’s wishes by going through the wrong lobby, and more and more Conservative Associations in open rebellion too, in what way will withdrawing the whip encourager anything other than legitimise more rebellion against Dave?
    As for Parris, his writing has all the relevance and edge of decades old Punch magazines you might find in your Doctor’s waiting-room.

  396. ….. And while our own politicians are kissing Islamic arse in order to appease the imported Islamic voters and our security services are trying to recruit murderous Nigerian nutters to help them with their ‘intelligence gathering’ – and our FCO and their counterparts in the US are busily covertly supplying the Muslim Brotherhood with arms in Syria; the ex CIA agent and Middle East expert Clare M Lopez (whose brilliant analysis of MB I linked on the last Wall), just sent me a copy of her latest update, which you can read on this link:

    http://lopez.pundicity.com/13358/axis-of-jihad

    Bear in mind as you read it that she published this on the day that Obama, the shill POTUS, on the instructions of the commies pulling his strings, made his egregious speech declaring that the War on Terror must end during his second term and we must deal with its aftermath as a series of spontaneous incidents as they arise.

    Given Ms Lopez’s report, I am even more convinced that Obama and his handlers ARE the enemy and that our own administration here in the UK together with its counterparts in Europe are in their thrall.

    There can be no other explanation, surely?

    Please read her report, it is lengthy but once again packed with the detailed data of a brilliant intelligence analyst: it is chlling.

  397. Btw way, the notations and sources are highlighted throughout her text, just click on them to read the details.

  398. Meanwhile:”Cameron heads new anti-terrorism task force”[Mail on Sunday].Fraser Nelson[Spec.]raises question as to what its name/acrynom should be.`UlyssesReturns`suggests “Tackling War Against Terror Suspects”.

  399. Redneck, I wouldn’t read too much into the timings that articles poses, because I think the timing is impossible to call.

    It’s the first part of the article that rings truest. World markets have clearly been manipulated and I think the only way to save the shadow banking system (which is run for the benefit of bankers, not us) is to print to infinity.

    That’s why all these Goldman Sachs people are appearing in government office or de facto government office.

    I don’t believe in an elite with official membership as such but I do believe that we are seeing an elite that looks out for each other’s interests and uses quid pro quo and will take out their mess on the rest of us.

    Their thinking is not original. It can be put in a nutshell in that phrase used by Rahm Emanuel:

    “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”

    We see this all the time from politicians.

    Jihadists behead someone without the use of the internet.

    So that’s an excuse to spy on everyone else.

    That sort of government policy non-sequitur.

    The EU wants to use this crisis to make everything in it more federal, with talk of Europe-wide fiscal policy and so on.

    The ‘reward’ for bailed out countries is more deference to the centre of Europe and as a consequence the public are either rioting or turning away from all the political parties tied to Europe.

    Britain is unusual in that it is not part of the euro and has a first past the post electoral system (and now fixed five-year parliaments – now there was another power grab), so people don’t have a way of shifting nimbly away from mainstream parties as Greece and Italy are learning how to do.

    But it is happening. Albeit slowly. We all recognise that the main parties cannot be supported.

    I don’t think UKIP is the answer but I will vote for them because Farage is the man of the moment, by which I mean he’s the best opportiunity there is here for resistance, but if he does a deal with the Tories, I do think that opens the way for someone else.

    What’s intersting is that a lot of the old smear techniques used by FLeet Street no longer seem to work. They’re seen for what they are.

    There was a very spiteful piece written by that ghastly man Allister Heath in the Telegraph the other week saying UKIP is short on detail!

    Oh, like the others aren’t before they get into office!

    Not only are LibLabCon short on detail, they don’t even keep what promises they do make.

    Who remembers all the manifestos with mass immigration in them?

    Who voted for that?

    They talk today about monitoring the internet. What they mean is ‘let’s monitor dissent’.

    What they should really be talking about is closing our borders and enforcing mass repatriations.

  400. And I heard earlier on the radio that the one of the vibrant Woolwich murderers was not only known to MI5 for 8 years, and offered a job by them, but was probably “Mrs May admitted” given assistance by HM High Commission in Kenya when he was expelled from that country for terrorist activity!! So how come Kenya can deport terrorists but we can’t?
    I know, I know, I’m still infected and steeped in the old reactionary imperialist paradigm, but I think that my main trouble going forward is if, as the Left have been screaming for years, British and European Colonialism was so terrible, how come colonizing England is so marvelous?

  401. IRISHBOY 26th, 17:51 & 21:59 & Frank P 21:02

    Bingo!

    p.s…I didn’t realise anybody still read Parris.

  402. Frank P –

    Your posting (26 May 22:24) made me turn back to my own posting (26 May 03:32) where I speculated that the lackadaisical attitude of various parts of the British Establishment towards Islamic terrorism was attributable to either insanity or bribery.

    Comparing my speculations (which I thought to be both plausible and disturbing) with the contents of report from Clare M Lopez I am persuaded that my speculations missed the mark almost entirely and that the real situation is far graver than I imagined.

    It made me recall that one summer – it may have been more than 10 years ago – a good many men who dressed and looked like Arabs were conspicuously to be seen near where I live. They had big new cars, were seen with many local girls, and frequented an Internet cafe on one of our main streets. One day I noticed a group of them strolling round a nearby shopping mall.

    The memory of it has stayed with me quite vividly. I thought that they looked like they were casing the joint.

    Now, today, I read the Clare M.Lopez report – and see that about half way down, writing about the organisation of Islamic terrorism, she says – “These cells are assigned to pre-attack casing and surveillance;”.

    You describe her report as chilling. It certainly is. When I read her reference to ‘pre-attack casing’ my blood suddenly ran cold.

  404. I see that the Daily Mail has a headline asking – “So how big was the terror cell?”

    A reasonable question, but wouldn’t it be even more important to ask – HOW MANY MORE CELLS ARE THERE?

  405. Melanie is back at the mail with what looks to be an article written under supervision .

  407. troll@08:11 (aka telemachus?)

    Thou art truly a gLiberal!
    Just remember, the useful idiots are always the first to go.

    New wall please, Peter.

  408. Has anyone yet noted here the grimly humorous article by Mr. Rod Liddle at the other place? I would not want to deprive of credit anyone to whom credit is due, but:

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/8913861/now-we-are-offering-asylum-to-mass-murderers/

    In certain circumstances, as Mr. Bumble noted, ‘the law is a ass’ for supposing as a solicitor pointed out to him “that your wife acts under your direction”… One might add that in the case noted by Liddle it is a criminal ass if it supposes that the Home Secretary acts in accordance with the will of the Queen in Parliament rather than the Central Committee of the European Union.

  411. EC

    No, I think it’s probably Boris Johnson. He is featured prominently at the DT where he has developed a 10 point policy for dealing with islamism. Am I dreaming or has his original article been amended towards a more forceful stance since the previous edition a few hours ago? He is slowly backing himself into a popular position. Let’s see if he also issues a statement on the “Support our Forces” gathering at Downing Street later today.

  412. I have been together with my husband for the past 5 years with a son only for my husband to tell me that he was no longer interested in our married, saying that he want a divorce all because he had found another woman. when i heard this i was so sad beyond measure, that i pleaded with him with every thing i had but he refused.
    I had to seek for help because i loved my husband too much to let him go, i met someone on line who directed me to spell caster who helped her before. she asked me to contact the spell caster, of which i did.The spell caster told me to stop sharing tears that everything will be all right that i will have my husband back in 3 days, she asked me to do all that she asked me to and i did them, i want the world to know that am a not a fan of mystical powers, put i had no choice.
    On the 2day i got a call from my husband asking for forgiveness from me and wanting to come back to me, when i had this i was so happy and overwhelmed that i have vowed to publish the work of the great spell caster, she is indeed genuine. You can contact her on (ANNASHELLY42@GMAIL.COM) for help on any problem you may be facing in life, be it on relationships, illness, pregnancy, etc.

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